19.It's easy to stereotype Brian Michael Bendis's work on the "Avengers", or, at least it is until the slightest effort is made to engage with the almost seven years of scripts that he's provided for the franchise. For even a passing familiarity with that mass of work provides evidence of not so much a single Brian Michael Bendis as a whole series of them, each connected by a clear family resemblance, but each to a greater or lesser degree quite distinct from the other. One Mr Bendis is something of a traditionalist, producing time-travelling epics with John Romita Jr which quite deliberately riff off of obscure Seventies Marvel titles, while another Mr Bendis seems closer to an angst-obsessed Chris Claremont preoccupied by alternate-realities and doomed relationships. On the one hand, there's the Brian Michael Bendis who can in part be associated with decompressed storytelling, and on the other, there's a writer whose work often flatly contradicts such a judgement, producing pages and pages of text-heavy storytelling as well as notably intense superhero punch-ups.
But there is one approach to storytelling that's remarkably rare in Mr Bendis's scripts for the various Avengers titles, and that's the paternalistic one used by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby in the earliest days of the property. That's not to say that Mr Bendis is ever contemptuous of such a traditional approach. But it does seem that his work on "Earth's Mightiest Heroes" starts from the premise that his readers have at the very least read a fair good number of the more than 40 years of Avengers stories approached in the paternalistic manner, and that given such familiarity with the form, his playing with the formula will inevitably pay greater dividends than his merely replicating it. It surely can't be, as some folks would have it, that Mr Bendis simply doesn't want to write

more traditionally Lee/Kirby-esque stories. For all that he's obviously fascinated by narrative traditions from far beyond those of comic-books, and for all that he enjoys hybridising them with those of the superhero tale, Mr Bendis must surely be credited with recognising that forty and more years of conventional storytelling had helped paint the Avengers into something of a cosy and overly-familiar corner. In that, his determination to shake up the form as well as the content of "The Avengers" has far more in common with Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's mission on the Marvel books of the early Sixties than is often recognised.
Change was necessary, and change was as stimulating for all the creators involved as it was for their audience. With three different Avengers comics currently selling almost a quarter of a million titles between them every month, it might be thought that Mr Bendis's experimentation and achievement would be granted a touch more critical attention and respect than sometimes seems to be the case.

20.
The sheer degree of radicalism in Mr Bendis's approach can be seen in the page scanned above from "New Avengers" # 11. If any single side of his work could serve as an example of everything that the paternalistic approach isn't, then this would surely be it. It's a set of panels produced in collaboration with artist David Finch in which nothing that's obviously visually enticing occurs beyond the passing subtleties of Steve Rogers everyday body language, and in which the dialogue is as prosaic and undramatic as might be imagined. The panel angle is static, the background is banal and unchanging, and the viewer is denied even the virtue of seeing the responses on the face of whoever it is that Captain America is talking to.
It is, at first glance, a page apparently designed to not attract the reader's attention. Because of that, it's certainly easy to imagine how Stan Lee might have responded to receiving such a submission in 1963, for the audience of children and precocious adolescents who were buying the Marvel Comics of the period could have no interest in anything so seemingly dull. It's almost motionless, the language is largely disconnected from any broad emotional terms, and making sense of what's being said relies on a deep knowledge of MU continuity - Fisk, Murdock, Harada - and of non-comics genre terms such as "intel" too.

Yet it's absolutely telling that this peculiar scene is followed by three pages of wordless ninja-fighting, an incredibly kinetic, brutal and bloody sequence which, although quite unlike anything ever presented by Lee and Kirby, is still recognisable as an eye-catching and thrilling spectacle. In that, it's pure comicbook-action eyecandy. We'll chat about the fight-scene itself in the new year, but for the moment, it's worth noting that Mr Bendis has obviously not abandoned the responsibility to entertain so much as reformulated the ways in which entertainment might be generated. Unlike the paternalistic approach to storytelling, where constant action, eye-catching invention and perfect clarity are the guiding principles, Mr Bendis is presenting his readers with a far more opaque and challenging approach to grabbing and holding the audience's attention.
It's obviously not an approach which would, or ever could, appeal to the young boys who served as the audience for the first issues of The Avengers, but, of course, young boys rarely read comic books such as The Avengers anymore, and the challenges faced by today's writers and artists are in so many ways quite different from those facing Mr Lee and his staff in the early Sixties.

21.
It seems to me that Brian Michael Bendis's approach to The Avengers begins with a judgement that the manner in which a modern-day superhero comic is told is at least as important as what the content of the story is. By that I don't mean that story is an unimportant matter for Mr Bendis, for that's obviously not so. But he does seem to proceed from a profoundly post-modern starting point, namely that his readers are massively familiar with both the narratives of the superhero tale and those of adventure stories from a host of competing genres and mediums too. To retell in The Avengers the familiar, fifty-year old superhero traditions seems to Mr Bendis, we might presume, a quite futile and indeed alienating business, for his audience as indeed for himself.
For in a very real sense, Mr Bendis isn't choosing to ignore the many components of the paternalistic approach as he is deliberately innovating within it. He's not so much ignoring tradition as he is relying on it to inform his development of it, just as be-bop often relied upon the deep structure of classic songs to inspire and ground its experimentation. Mr Bendis is reliant upon his readers being skilled and knowledgeable experts where the traditions of the superhero comic book is concerned, so that his audience can interpret where his playful redrafting of the form diverts from tradition, and where it does not. This reliance upon

the audience to collaborate in the storytelling process, rather than to sit back and function as passive consumers, can be seen in the four panel scene starring Cap and the back of Ronin's head which we touched upon above. The very fact of the page's stillness draws attention to the importance of the details of the scene, and that constant and unrevealing back of a mysterious head raises questions which foreshadow and inform events that will weave in and out of coming issues. And once the enigma of the unnamed subject of Captain America's briefing becomes more pressing, Steve Roger's relatively undramatic words will become important sources of data to solve the question of who the unnamed character is.
Or; the very stillness of the scene accentuates the need for the reader to focus on it, and sets up questions and partial-answers which will inform the pages to come.
More so, it's a sequence which will inevitably appeal to any reader who has, or who wants, a keen knowledge of Marvel's continuity. All those references to people and events in the Marvel Universe are there to snare the curiosity of an audience trained to want to draw connections between the different areas of their comic book knowledge.

And, finally, that excessive stillness and quiet also has a quite deliberate structural purpose. While Lee and Kirby were dedicated to maintaining two speeds - fast and very fast - throughout their tales, Mr Bendis knows that carefully rejigging the traditionally obvious progression of events in the superhero tale intensifies the reader's involvement in what otherwise would be a predictable narrative. Playing with the sequence of chronology in his tales as he does here, shifting time and place, from the past in NYC, on this page, to the present day in Tokyo, on the next, throws the reader and forces them to more actively make sense of what they're experiencing. And by unexpectedly juxtaposing the incredibly static with the disorientating action-packed, as occurs when the stillness of the interview suddenly shifts to a dust-up in Japan, surprise and enigma are introduced into "Ronin Part 1". It's a process that his readers can of course cope with, because they have a mental map of how a standard-issue, traditional superhero tale would normally progress, but it's a different enough experience to create a measure of unfamiliarity and even mild shock. In effect, Mr Bendis is playing games with his audience's expectations, giving them the promise of what they know they want to entice them in, while presenting enough of a deliberately fractured reading experience to make the familiar seem fresher than it otherwise might. It's a playfulness which draws in a knowledgeable audience and forces them to engage with a tale which in its own basic terms is absolutely conventional, and which could easily be told in a straight-forward and paternalistic, and yawningly quite predictable, fashion.

22.
One of the advantages of approaching superheroes in such a post-modern way to a willing, conspiratorial audience is that the storytelling forms can be invigorated even as they're messed with. Mr Bendis, for example, injected a substantial dose of the narrative conventions associated with the thriller genre into this run on the Avengers. To do so in a bog-standard superhero narrative would be a potentially interesting experiment. To do so in a story that's already structured around long-running mysteries and unconventional story-telling is as wry a business as it is logical. An audience who're already juggling unexplained and unexpected jumps in time and setting are far more likely to engage with the appeal of double and triple-agents, secret organisations and "intel" missions overseas. This may not be the "pure" form of the superhero team-book narrative, but that's what gives it its energy and, I've no doubt, its commercial allure. In that, form and content are far better matched in "Ronin part one" than first appears to most entrenched lover of the paternalistic form, and what's at hand is in its own way every bit as deliberate and functional as Lee and Kirby's work was in its own day. Attention is grabbed, questions are posed, a measure of intensity is created, and a mass readership engaged.
In performing his post-modern business, Mr Bendis builds upon rather than rejects paternalism, and does so to offer his often-jaded audience the promise of the unfamiliar as well as, rather than instead of, the comfortably well-worn. The super-villains and their world-threatening schemes are still there, the heroes are still vulnerable alone and undefeatable if they stand together in the end. Much of the raw material is exactly, and respectfully, as it always was. Yet without abandoning responsibility for directing his audience's attention, he does abandon the belief that he's solely responsible for how the reader will perceive what's happening on the page. He is in fact a writer who often demands that his readers work harder than they might otherwise do in making sense of what they're reading, and the degree to which he manages to encourage them to do so is one measure of how successful Mr Bendis's work might be regarded as being.

It's not an approach without its own challenges and problems, and we'll discuss some of those soon. But it is a far more innovative, clever and functional design than labels such as "deconstruction" might indicate. As a starting point to writing the adventures of a team of superheroes in the 21st century, it offers endless possibilities, and helps to explain, perhaps, to a greater or lesser degree, why Mr Bendis apparently has so many different styles when his books are regarded over time. In the very best post-modern sense, his knowledge of the basic form allied to his determination to mess purposefully with it means that he can constantly reinvent the form that he's playing with, and thereby produce a significant range of variations on the traditional themes.
And reinventing the form without losing track of its traditions is only, after all, what Stan Lee and Jack Kirby did, and regardless of how each might be ranked in importance against each other, change in 2004 was as absolutely necessary for the superhero genre's survival as it was in 1961. In the case of Brian Michael Bendis, the key to re-developing the genre was not simply to deliver more and more of what had gone before. In fact, it appears that Mr Bendis seems from the off to have identified the over-familiarity of the superhero genre as the major obstacle to the commercial success of "The Avengers". The very business of folks dressing in costumes and punching each other with super-strength in teams was no longer of itself particularly fresh or interesting. And if superheroes behaving superheroically in a post-Lee and Kirby fashion has become so by-the-numbers as to seem conservative and dull, then what is there left to focus on? If there's few ways to have one costume fight another without calling up a thousand or more similar battles from the past, then something else needs to be presented as the focus of the superhero comic.

For Mr Bendis, it seems obvious that what interested him most was not the behaviour of superheroes in combat so much as the behaviour of and interaction between superheroes as people. And for him, the evidence of his stories would argue that he's most fascinated with how superheroes get along with each other while facing the challenges of an insane world in a recognisably everyday fashion. He's just not as interested, as Lee and Kirby themselves were, in placing the superhero in front of a backdrop of a mundane everyday existence and showing in imaginative detail how their powers function and develop. Mr Bendis is rather fascinated by what it's like to live as a superhero amongst other superheroes, and by matters such as what having breakfast, lunch and dinner is like when your table-mates are mutants, aliens and super-people.
Where once action was the purpose of the superhero tale, and characterisation its essential seasoning, the Avengers stories of Brian Michael Bendis have tended to operate on quite the opposite principle. And where the rules of paternalistic storytelling once demanded constant excitement and clarity, Mr Bendis is far more concerned to break up the progress of the traditional narrative while encouraging his audience to collaborate with him on making sense of the events and enigmas that he's putting before them.

To be continued in the New Year, taking a look at how Mr Bendis approaches some of his action scenes, and considering some of the problems associated with a more post-modern approach to superhero comics too.
Stick together! And have a splendid day, as well as a Happy New Year! There'll be a little holiday best wishes expressed here tomorrow and then it's on into 2011! Gosh ....
.
Yes! I get it now! This counterpoint to your thoughts on Lee and Kirby helped solidify both for me. Thank you for that. Additionally, your thoughts on Bendis may be applied to other genre work. For example, the recent reworking of Battlestar Galactica was successful, not because it gave us more fight scenes between the humans and cylons, but because it created interesting relationships between the two, with shifting power struggles and unexpected alliances. The comic book and television show The Walking Dead is also successful by playing on what we know about horror stories, and then concentrating on the conflicts between those still alive. I think what makes Bendis successful is his tapping into the pulse of postmodern entertainment, as you rightly point out. But I hadn't thought of his work in that manner before.
ReplyDeleteTo belabor the point: I think Bendis knowingly is using similar skills to pull the reader into Scarlet, his new "revenge" story. I assume we're all familiar with that style too (We've all read a Punisher comic, right?) But Bendis' structure forces the reader to be complicit in the actions of the anti-hero. It'll be very interesting to read that book now, thinking of his work in this way. Thanks again, Colin, for illuminating thoughts.
This has the whiff of the early stages of the follow up to your Mark Millar book... ;)
ReplyDeleteHello Brian:- thank you for helping me think these things through with those examples. How right you are about Battlestar Galactica, a show that, now you've inspired me to consider it, is really a conversation with the original as much as it a work in its own right. But of course, as I'll be discussing soon about BMB and The Avengers, there is a problem with a post-modern approach in serial fiction, and that's that without a clear grasp of how the traditional form of the story would have progressed, the post-modern form gets caught up in its own cleverness. I think this happened to Battlestar, in that Ron Moore and several of his colleagues have admitted they were making up absolutely key elements of the story as they went along. The more their innovations diverged from the original, the less they could rely on the stabilising influence of the original narrative, and for all that it had some very good episodes in that last run of episodes, I felt that the show was trying to reconsile all its innovations rather than telling a well-structured adventure tale paying off five years of stories. I guess its something of what Dylan said when he said something to the effect that to live outside the law you must be honest. To be post-modern in the adventure genre, you have to be two writers; you have to be a brilliant traditionalist so you have your form and structure in place, and then you have to be an ingenious and playful artist. It's a tough ask, it really is. When it pays off, it's a wonderful sight. When it doesn't, the sense of anti-climax is crippling, and there's not much room for anything but GREAT and SIGH.
ReplyDeleteThat's a great call, if I may say so in my typically guileless fashion, about "Scarlet". I too must return to it. I think it's an absolutely solid book, I really do, in many ways the best-structured and executed book on the marketplace. When I reviewed it earlier this year, I got several comments which I couldn't publish, so rude and dismissive were they about the book. I think your take is quite the right one. It's an admirable book, and I say that as a considerable compliment. It's sold, I believe, but it just hasn't had the credit for its form as much as its content.
Thank you, Brian. As always, it's a pleasure to swap ideas with you, it really is.
Hello Emperor:- that's a very smart point, Mr E, if I may say so. Not that anyone wants me to write about Mr Bendis, but I do have exactly the same feeling as when I started writing about Mr Millar, that sense that there's far, far more going on than I'd grasped, and of the excitement in noticing how deep structure can produce considerable effect without necessarily drawing attention to itself.
ReplyDeleteYep. Good call! :)
"Not that anyone wants me to write about Mr Bendis"
ReplyDeleteYet. Give it time. ;)
He is another under-appreciated (especially by me) writer who, while popular, hasn't really had the elements of his craft properly teased out (as Gaiman, Moore and Morrison have, and Ellis next year). While I might not be the biggest fan of their mainstream superhero work, I'm up for reading the books as it might help me see them in a new light.
I've just got the first Dark Avengers hardcover (with the second on the way), so I'll be reading it with a fresh eye now.
Colin,
ReplyDeleteThe page you highlighted is the kind of thing I find myself, frankly, thrashing against and interacting with your article has proven a great test of my 'resolve.'
You make some good points about Bendis and how he challenges the reader to tie in - engage - and focus on the little things that can make characters live and breathe in their fictional space. Some of the best Bendis moments are the "in between" shots and scenes. The instances he catches the characters being more 'themselves' and not the archetypes.
That being said I struggle to reconcile pages like the one above. It seems criminal to take that much space - that much real estate - where other action could be taking place. I'm certainly not here to rewrite the story but why not challenge the reader by captioning Steve's instruction? Show how isolated and paranoid the new Ronin is as the mission is prepped. Jump around to different locales establishing the target. Show Ronin blend into the cover guise. How effective might it have been as Steve is captioned saying "no killing" to see Ronin passing on a kill or perhaps taking one? My own paltry literary abilities aside, surely a writer of some craft and actual talent would be able to develop a work around more suited to the comics page.
Show - Show - Show
not
Tell - Tell - Tell
Bendis seems mightily influenced by Soderbergh (or his precursors) and the craft he brought to his reality style of film. In film it's a necessity based choice. If you don't have the budget for bells and whistles you set movies around a card game, a dinner table. Limited shot angles. No coverage shots for character reaction or interaction. Fixed perspective as in the scanned page.
My problem is that in COMICS! the artist has a page rate. You pay the page rate and you get ninja action or you get photo shopped restaurant background. Your mileage may vary on this, of course, as a reader based on a number of personal variables (Ear for written tone? Captain America's arm being bigger than his entire torso? price?).
That being said, Bendis using his considerable narrative tool box is admirable and by and large his books sell well enough within the established market that he writes his own calendar.
It largely works for him and them and largely not for me. I never would have thought after the glut of 90's material that I'd ever follow the Punisher but Ennis made me a BELIEVER. Morrison made me care deeply about BATMAN after I watched Batman & Robin in a theater and thought I was having an aneurysm. Literally, when they reversed the film to show Robin going back into the water I thought I'd blown a fuse. I had exactly three issues of Starman in my collection and now I'm voraciously buying (as budget allows) the Omnibus collections.
So the question stops being about whether or not it's any good. That's taste and there's no accounting for it.
Think about it this way: If I want someone to fall in love with the novel (as a form) I do not hand them Gravity's Rainbow. Is it a great thing? Well, that's up for grabs. If I'm the caretaker of I.P. responsible for building the kingdom which I inhabit I don't know if this is the type of writing I use to showcase said I.P. to new generations of readers.
All fine and good! There is more material than ever! Does the right material (quality / tone & style / design) get into the right hands to forge that lifelong love. The thought that comics might be unique and the highest order of alchemical fiction? Answer - Not currently.
What might Marshal McLuhan say? What message is this medium conveying about us?
Thanks, as ever, for making me think about what I choose to believe re: my favorite artistic medium. The world view NOT under assault and or revision is dangerous because you then tend to think you might be entirely (as opposed to nominally and temporarily) right after all.
Hello Emperor:- your patience and faith do you credit. One day I'll write 50 book history of superhero writing techniques, though I'll need 50 years to start to grasp the craft first. And then, well, there's the art to write about, and then inking .... :)
ReplyDeleteI know I'm a poor one to be teasing out the elements of anyone's craft, but it is my intention to try to do so. And I always find that if I start from the premise that what writers produce is to a greater or lesser degree the result of craft, I enjoy their work far more. And of all the current writers who are selling monthly books, it's Mr Bendis who, along with Mr Johns, seems to receive the least focused attention. Of course, there's BRILLIANT stuff both pro and con out there about him, but not nearly enough. If the work of Bendis and Johns was removed from the monthly schedules, there's around half a million books which might not sell anymore. For an industry to be that reliant on two writers is as telling as it is worrying. By that I don't mean two fine craftsmen shouldn't have so much clout, but who else has a degree of craft which elicits popular support who could step up to the plate beyond the ubiquitous Morrison and Millar? I can think of half a dozen candidates, perhaps a touch more. And yet you'd think there'd be greater competition, and a greater debate of why those 2 were so successful.
Hello Smitty:- and you'll of course know me by now and recognise that I share a great deal, if not indeed all, of your reservations. And yet I do remain convinced that there's a purpose and a deliberate craft involved in such scenes, and we know they work for their audience. Even if the stillness of that scene were placed there solely to create the shock of the appearance of the following fight scene, it would have a specific purpose.
ReplyDeleteAnd so I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with you, which is of course a profoundly post-modern position. I do know that my admiration for Mr Bendis has increased to an incredible degree this year, as it has for Mr Johns, his DC counterpart in so many ways, if not down to the detail of their storytelling, Mr Johns far more of a consistent paternalist.
I'm going to attend to exactly the points you make about using space and the influence of other mediums such as film - or as best I can, of course - next time out, actually. As always, I say that not because anyone should care, but just to tip my hat to you that I share your interests and concerns so much that I'm writing about at this very moment. That I'm not commenting more here is simply because you've quite rightly anticipated where I'm going next, bless you, and I've yet to quite finish that process of putting together an argument I'm absolutely comfortable with. Or as comfortable as I ever am.!
"So the question stops being about whether or not it's any good. That's taste and there's no accounting for it."
I so agree, Smitty! And I'm becoming far more interested in how a creator may or may not create an effect than my individual response to that. For one thing, once I glimpse the technique - and I know I'm not great at that, having few skills myself - I always enjoy the work more. And that often tells me that I've not been being fair to a text. Of course, there's nought wrong with not looking at things in anything other than a personal fashion, but I do have the opportunity at the moment to look a little deeper and even if what I see is laughably shallow and even inaccurate, IT'S MORE THAN I GRASPED BEFORE! And it makes me feel enthusiastic about the medium. It's the same with any creative endeavour. I've just been reading a marvellously well written article about MSP in this month's Q by John Niven. What a fine and disciplined writer he is! Again, a hour spent re-reading his article was well worth the time spent. Even his description of the lobby of a giant Japanese hotel was quite brilliant and when I go back to own writing, I'll try to use something of that, if I can.
cont;
cont:
ReplyDeleteWhy am I digressing so? Well, I hope I'm not, though I fear I am being obscure. I suppose my approach to creators now is that I want to read less and experience what I do more intensely. And so your closing and inspiring point about unconsidered opinions matters a great deal to me now. If at any point BMB isn't providing you or I with the experience we want, what does that mean? And why should Robinson's Starman work more for you than say New Avengers? I'm of a mind that the whole experience becomes more intense and enjoyable from such questions, as it is from reading your passionate take on things.
And yet, with half-a-million readers or so every month in floppies and trades for Mr Bendis and Mr Johns work, there must be an army of folks for whom these books are key texts. They are creating magic for huge numbers of folks. The debate too often is to either support or reject these creators work, but there's something far more important, as you discuss. If they are creating magic, why so, and how much more of the precious commodity could be accessed so that this medium might do better and survive and thrive.
"The world view NOT under assault and or revision is dangerous because you then tend to think you might be entirely (as opposed to nominally and temporarily) right after all."
Yes! Thanks for making me think, Smitty. And a happy new year to you and yours!
"If the work of Bendis and Johns was removed from the monthly schedules, there's around half a million books which might not sell anymore."
ReplyDeleteThat's a tricky one to prove. The Avengers will always sell well as long as you've got a decent creative team (just a quick check shows that the Avengers is currently selling the same amount it was in 1999 under the stewardship of Kurt Busiek, although it dropped in between under folks like Chuck Austen but New Avengers sold at 150k when relaunched under Bendis, so current sales don't like so great. Then again in 1996 Avengers was selling quarter of a million copies to Batman's 73k...). It could be argued that Johns has revitalised rather moribund properties, like Green Lantern (and coming this year, The Flash), which could also be argued of Morrison and Batman (both titles were selling around 50k in 1999 and are now the titles/families that are driving sales for DC).
Obviously it is difficult to call. Without Johns we'd not have had Blackest Night/Brightest Day, so you'd lose those sales, however, Avengers, Batman and Green Lantern would still sell - the quality of the creative team will impact on sales to some extent, as will whether they have their own following (as someone like Morrison probably has), but how many sales having Bendis on the books is tricky to quantify, we won't really know until he hands the reins over.
Purely anecdotally, the word of mouth this year (especially from people who don't usually buy comics from the Big Two) has been all about Batman & Robin, I can't think I've heard anyone recommend reading BMB's Avengers - although those reading it did praise one of the most recent issues, which included the Avengers sitting around in the costumes talking, calling it one of the best of his run (which probably has something to say about his strengths as a writer, but also the fact they were wearing their costumes is somehow telling with regard to themes you've touched on in your recent pieces).
Hello Emperor:- there's been a untypical gap between my putting up your comment and replying to it because I've kept re-writing my response. That tends to happen when I feel uncomfortable with the nature of the debate at hand, and so I've done some digging of sales figures and I've written some general points about today's market, and yet none of that felt as if it were dealing with the real issue issue.
ReplyDeleteWhat might that "real issue" perhaps be? On considerable reflection, I think I'm perplexed by your response. Of course, you're right that books aren't going to stop selling if BMB moves on. But in truth, I'm baffled by what you're saying. The sheer consistency in sales figures and chart placings of the Avengers franchise - it was just one book in 2003, now it's a line far outselling the mutant books - surely establish that BMB is simply the most important writer currently at work in the marketplace. He's selling a quarter million comics and however many thousand collections every 30 days and leading a line of other successful Avengers books. He's placed the Avengers right at the centre of the MU and the very tone of the MU is now set to a greater degree by his work. Quantifying how things might do in his absence isn't the point, which was why I put "might" in my original statement. The point, which I didn't make well enough because I didn't grasp it well enough until you were kind enough to challenge me, is that this guy's work is so incredibly successful and important that much of the industry relies on his breathing in to catch a waft of his oxygen. The lack of critical appraisal and approval from some quarters is far more a sign of the paucity of detailed evaluative attention on the net for the mainstream titles than it is a mark of a lack of popular interest in his work. I'm not a huge Bendis fan, anymore than I am of Mr Millar, but if a history of this period is written, they with Mr johns and Mr Morrison will be in large part of the mainstream’s story, and because of his importance to Marvel and its sales dominance, I'd suggest his achievements in some ways out-strip even theirs. And I don't just mean that in commercial terms. That he should have done this with a style which is often contrary and after its own fashion cerebral is remarkable.
What I mean is that I despair a touch for the comic’s net, if you will, because much of the big story lies in Mr Bendis and Mr Johns work, and yet it's often treated as if it were of no importance, as if the techniques involved were minor and unimpressive, and as if the achievements were simply about sales. That anything could be simply about such sales in such a long-contracting market would be a remarkable thing, but he's far more than that. He is a unique stylist in comics. No-one comes anywhere his style, for when he's copied its the deconstructive elements that are pilfered and all the rest, the core elements of innovation and invention, which are ignored because the critical debate often just ignores them.
And so I realise I wasn't debating with you at all, Emperor, so I'm sorry for any delay between posting your comment and this. Underneath my difficulty in replying was a sense of confusion and bafflement. How is it that we're just not paying enough attention to the form and content of these men's work?
And, of course, my utilising sales is so reductionist it doesn't really help much (except that it has provoked you to push on further with your argument, which is always a "result" in my book), something I'm sure you were either to polite to point out or it bit the dust in an early draft of your reply. ;) My wider point is that with a top flight writer the Avengers is always going to sell well (with a side serving of it being a sad state of affairs for the industry as a whole that 15 years ago one Avengers title was selling what the line is doing now). Ubiquity and sales don't actually tell us how good a writer is (Mark Millar was all over 2000AD when it was selling 4-5 times what it is today and even he says his work at the time was "shite"), so I am not sure I'd be able to justify saying "this guy's work is so incredibly successful and important that much of the industry relies on his breathing in to catch a waft of his oxygen," unless it means he needs to give other writers some breathing space and a chance to steer the larger stories in the Marvel Universe ;) Something that I'd also not necessarily agree with either. ;)
ReplyDelete"The lack of critical appraisal and approval from some quarters is far more a sign of the paucity of detailed evaluative attention on the net for the mainstream titles than it is a mark of a lack of popular interest in his work."
While I do believe that the level of comic book criticism is not what either of us would like (the only good thing I can think is that it is at least orders of magnitude better than comic book journalism) it also might be his approach to the medium rather defies conventional comic book criticism, which still addresses the individual pamphlet as a unit but Bendis is playing a longer game (on the big comic book sites there is a drive to be first with a news snippet or a review that can mean we lack a more balanced overview). It isn't the often bandied complaint of writing for the trade, which I think is missing the underlying aspects of BMB's work, he is writing a longer story that seems have gone beyond the limits of the 22 page comic book format. It may even be more fundamental than that, although a proper explanation eludes my grasp, going to the heart of what superhero comics are - is it a genre in its own right or is it a range of genres held together by scraps of spandex? DnA's Marvel Cosmic is two-fisted sci-fi, Kirby and Lee's Avengers was rollicking action adventure and BMB's Avengers is... something else, going beyond the genre tropes, possibly taking more direction from sequential story-telling in other media (like a soap opera perhaps, plenty of human drama, with the occasional outbreak of violence - OK I suppose that might just be Eastenders but still...). I am one and a half issue into the Dark Avengers trade and not a fist has been thrown, but it is never less than interesting and dramatic (and his dialogue is bang on), it is just that a) it might confound your expectations if you were expecting balls-to-the-wall superheroics b) you might be disappointed reading it in individual issues.
It is this defying (or at least stretching) the medium and genre that makes it very difficult for the big comics sites to even address, with their focus on keep everything recent and moving on at a lightning pace. They're bringing a fork to a soup party. Which is why your analysis is much appreciated (both on this topic and many others) as it isn't afraid to take the longer view and go deep. A book would, as I'm sure you are finding out, takes that another step as it forces you to crystallise arguments and nail down all the angles, which itself can open new lines of reasoning.
to be continued...
part 2:
ReplyDelete"How is it that we're just not paying enough attention to the form and content of these men's work?"
Book!!
As mentioned above, next year sees a number of books and even a documentary about Warren Ellis' work and himself, the actual impact of his present work (beyond the works themselves) is limited, unlike the influence The Authority had, for example. I'm sure those books will be interesting but, historically, it is, as you say, the work of Millar and Bendis that needs the attention. Obviously only time will tell how their long-lasting their impact will be but they (and Johns) do dominate the comic book landscape at the moment without there being much in the way of critical analysis of their work. Even if the future rejects their techniques and forges off in another direction, if it doesn't understand what it is spurning then there would be potential problems down the line and it could throw the baby out with the bathwater (as there is gold in them thar hills, we might just need to someone to provide the map ;) ).
I'll stop now, you still have the Millar book to do, but it is worth having an idea wriggling away at the back of your head for what to do next.
And just to clarify on my example:
ReplyDeleteAn Eastenders analogy is perhaps an interesting analogy to deploy when looking at superhero comics, as there are changes introduced purely to drive drama: radical shifts in character relationships, new characters popping up with connections to existing cast members, reworking and retelling of old stories, outbreaks of more violence than most civilians would read about in the papers, etc. However, it isn't appropriate to the example I raised - we are looking at something closer to... The West Wing (not a surprise that Aaron Sorkin is often given as an influence) or the Sopranos. Like The Wire, you have to invest time and effort to understand not only the setting and the characters but also the bigger storylines that are evolving in the background. The big story behind Dark Avengers (and a lot of the background to Dark Reign, as well as the run-up to it) is about power plays and the manipulation of pawns, it just so happens that some of those pawns wear their undies on the outside and the violent conflicts can include magic and god-like powers (OK and it involves actual deities), is rather secondary to the underlying story elements and, more importantly, the story-telling techniques.
The only real surprise is that he hasn't been poached by the TV and film industry (yet) as he clearly has the skills they are looking for and they can clearly offer more cash than the current comic book ghetto.
Captcha code: notrec - clearly some kind of sign (seems writing for Star Trek is out).
MIKE LOUGHLIN SAID, before a stupid and bleery-eyed blooger managed to delete his original comment by mistake (Sorry, Mike!)
ReplyDelete"Most of the comic book blogs I visit on the internet have very little to say about Bendis & Johns right now because 1) they have fallen out of favor with the snobs (can't think of a better term off-hand, and I count myself in that category at times) but their current output isn't as offensive as some of the worst writers; 2) Bendis' technique has become commonplace; 3) they don't write superawesomefun comics, a la Morrison, Parker, Tobin, Simone, etc.; and 4) there's always something more interesting to talk about, until they get really bad and/ or offensive again (see New Avengers 35, Infinite Crisis). Avengers (& X-Men, JLA, Green Lantern, Hulk, etc.) can't compare to new innovations or the superlative storytelling of the latest internet darling or an old favorite returning with something noteworthy.
You do, however, offer up reasons for people to care about Bendis' Avengers comics by placing them in the proper context. Oddly enough, you could have written about other Avengers notable runs (Englehart, Thomas, Stern, Shooter, Harras, Busiek*) without taking history into account and had people responding with pleasant memories or reasons this story or that moment RULED. Writing about Bendis' Avengers seems more of a challenge, and I'm eager to see just how you criticize his approach.
Starting with the good is refreshing and probably necessary, make no mistake. It definitely made me think more about how the comic worked and why sales might have stayed high despite elements that many readers seemed to despise. The negative, though... that could open floodgates.
Have a wonderful New Year!
- Mike Loughlin
* as nostalgic as Busiek' & Perez & Co.'s Avengers was, I hadn't read most of the older issues at that point (reprints were scarce, and Essentials didn't get to Avengers for a few years after its start) and still understood them. Paternalistic storytelling, indeed.
Hello Mike, and firstly, the happiest of New Years to you and yours. It's been a pleasure swapping ideas with you this past year.
ReplyDeleteYour point about the Busiek / Perez run is well-taken. I do have a preference for paternalistic storytelling and it's telling how many of the best-selling books of the past few decades have been incredibly traditional about spectacle and clarity. In fact, I think that makes a close study of BMB's books even more important, in that he is bucking a considerable historical trend by producing the work he is. How he does that and why it appeals would be important for that reason alone. I think it's particularly important - in addition to the various reasons mentioned before - because BMB obviously speaks to a constituency which is under-represented in the blogosphere. At the moment - though obviously not by yourself - too much of the response to BMB and GJ in SOME quarters seems to stem from a dismissive attitude that their work is just populist and pandering, as if such a matter would be unimportant in a genre struggling so for readers as this one is. But beyond that, and I appreciate you saying there might be some value in discussing this, both BMB and GJ really ARE considerable innovators. Study their work and it quickly becomes obvious that they are highly skilled and individual craftsmen with techniques which no one else practises as they do. Like I'm sure half the comics net, I write myself, and one of the exercises I find I most benefit from is to take a page I've written and re-write it trying to apply the techniques of different writers. A page filtered through what I can grasp of BMB and GJ becomes a very different thing indeed, and one which I never fail to learn from. A study of the work of some other more acclaimed, even lauded, writers yields far less technical knowledge and innovation when their form and content is studied, and what I end up with after filtering my work through theirs is little different, though of course in absolute terms of far, far less value.
It worries me that so many seem to be ignoring, or worse, the work of folks who are carrying the industry and whose work is often highly skilled and effective. It may not be to my taste a great deal of the time, but if that's become the entire point of much of the debate, then the debate just isn't worth being part of.
The "negative" stuff, as you mention it? Well, I've come to praise Caesar as I did Lee and Kirby, but I will try to mention some of it. I'm really not a fan trying to sell these writers. They surely don't need an atom of my help! But if inventive work is being done and selling well and not always being recognised as such, then it worries me. It means that the gap between the chattering classes and the reading classes is getting even wider. Not a good thing.
My best to you, Mike!
Hello Emperor:- it is worth repeating that The Avengers HASN'T always been a top-rank book in the Marvel Universe. Relevant to other books, it's had long periods of mid-table respectability. It has NEVER been the success that it is under BMB. Never. It now IS Marvel Comics to a large degree. It's not that I don't respect your points, but I think there is a time for pruning back all that wood and admiring those trees. The Avengers now occupies the space that the X-Men did at the height of Claremont's reign. This is quite incredible. To compare BMB's achievement to the Busiek/Perez first year or to Heroes Reborn relaunch is quite fair in its own terms, but it runs the risk of missing what's so incredible here. THE AVENGERS IS MARVEL'S LINE-LEADING FRANCHISE. That would have been inconceivable even 7 years ago. One top-selling Avengers book was a relatively rare thing. A whole phalanx of them is simply amazing. That in itself should be enough to make everyone DESPERATE to work out how and why. And yet I just don't see it. Commentators should be slapping down anyone who uses the term deconstruction in a sloppy way to STILL describe BMB's Avengers work, but instead, too many of them use the word in an unreconstructed sense.
ReplyDeleteYour analysis of Dark Avengers is absolutely on the nose. It's not a standard-issue Marvel superhero book, though by grud it looks like it in places. You're absolutely right to point out that it IS full of incident. If I may, I'd like to add that I'm convinced that the popular view that BMB's Avengers books are 2-second reads is often - not always, but often - quite wrong. I'll rattle on about this in the next blog, but BMB is far more careful to load his books up with content than is often recognised.
Thank you for your kind words. I too appreciate very much the questions you ask of me, and its good to know that you recognise a robust defence as something quite different from a personal disagreement!
cont
Emperor:- cont:
ReplyDeleteOh, I'm so with you, as I guess will be obvious (!) on making an effort to learn how Mr Millar, Mr Bendis and Mr Johns actually achieve what they do. That word "achieve" would, if I put it in a public forum, perhaps cause a few folks to ask what those writers have achieved. Even to take aside content and look at form; Mr Millar has created a version of deconstructionism based on a specific pattern of identifying spectacular moments and organising a sequence of personal moments around and between each. That pattern itself is, as I say, quite specific. (There's far more to it than that, but just for the sake of argument.) OK, where is the discussion of it? Where is the acknowledgement that there is a style here with a specific form which informs story and sells books? Where is the respect for how GF has updated paternalism with a huge dose of the spectacular infused by a modern-day adaptation of Claremont and Wolfman? And so on.
Of course, I know there are a great many fine writers on the blog writing incredibly well, and of course far better than I am. Yet the nuts and bolts of these books is really important, and not nearly enough folks think to recognise achievements in craft before throwing in their "I LIKE" and "I HATE" comments. No wonder BMB said what he did about bloggers last year. I read what he'd said and thought, he's right, work harder. Yet the howl of whinging that came up from some quarters .....
Your points on the soap operatic influence on BMB's work are well-made, especially in the context of an HBO epic. And I must admit that there, as well in the influences from film and especially thrillers, I fear I know even less than usual. In such a way, what I contribute to the debate about BMB is even less than the limited contribution I'd hoped to make. (ie: I wanted to make sense!) For a great deal of what inspires BMB and influences him doesn't scream out of me because I don't share his sources. I'm always fascinated to hear him talking about the mediums and genres he enjoys on Word Balloon's The Bendis Tapes, and it's obvious from there that another thing he's doing is something which critics have argued for for years, namely bringing in influences from beyond the mainstream. And yet when someone does that AND they're commercially successful in doing so, it largely goes unmentioned.
cont;
Emperor: concluded;
ReplyDeleteIt defeats me, Emperor. I often think that a great deal of material on the net isn't about the work that's supposedly being discussed at all. Rather, it's about the book that the blogger wanted to read. I mean, I'll lay into a book for sexism or torture porn, because I believe that's as objectively wrong as you can get in a subjective existence - but I can't get annoyed because someone hasn't wrote the story I wanted them to. Sure, if it's dull, poorly constructed or whatever, then it needs discussing and the points explaining.
But Hank Pym, for example, isn't mine to write. If I object to how psychological problems are depicted in Marvel's depiction of him, then that's a valid point to make. But hating those who write him and/or dismissing their work because Pym is being written "wrong" in a way I don't "like", aw: that’s worst than daft.
I’m reminded of the famous DC board meeting in the Sixties which concluded that Marvel’s new books were selling well because they were “bad”. Well, there you go, DC, you dropped the ball catastrophically because you didn’t study what was going on. You skimmed the surface, said “Don’t like” and missed the point …
And suffered accordingly.
Thank you for taking the time and effort to retrieve my last comment.
ReplyDeleteIs there any way you can copy and paste:
"I can't get annoyed because someone hasn't wrote the story I wanted them to" and "hating those who write [character X] and/or dismissing their work because [character X] is being written "wrong" in a way I don't "like", aw: that’s worst than daft"
throughout the entire internet?
Of course, it's so hard to distinguish "don't like" from "bad." Even if I do recognize it, and I'm a blogger or commenter, I'm probably going to drop the comic regardless. Maybe that' s behind the lack of commentary on certain writers' books.
I look forward to more exchanging of ideas in the new year, and that extends to the other commenters on this blog as well as you, Colin.
- Mike Loughlin
Hello Mike:- I'm sorry I'm so daft I lost the comment in the first place. It was a considerable relief to retrieve it!
ReplyDeleteIt IS hard to "distinguish 'don't like' from 'bad'", isn't it? In some cases it's relatively easy:- Speedy, drug abuse and dead cats come to mind. In others it's impossible. But at least an effort might be made more than it sometimes is in some quarters.
I wonder if there aren't books which bloogers perhaps ought to keep an eye regardless of like or dislike? Perhaps a twice-yearly drop-in on the best-selling books with a serious eye on form and content might help keep everyone singing from something of the same hymn-sheet. I know that sounds daft, but when I went back to review some monthly books in the late summer, my whole opinion of what was and wasn't going on in the genre changed.
I look forward to any and all contributions you care to make here, Mike, I really do.
Colin, your last few posts have been as interesting and insightful as ever. The comment of yours that interests me most is the one you make in response to Smitty above: 'I want to read less and experience what I do more intensely.' The relationship between intensiveness and extensiveness, in both the consumption and the production of fiction, is in my opinion one of the most interesting and important tensions there is, especially today.
ReplyDeleteIt's long been argued that short works of literature (poems and aphorisms) seem to have more oblique, hermetically sealed meanings than long works of literature (prose, particularly the novel when compared with the short story). This idea is pertinent to comics for two reasons: first, the combination of text with pictures (pictures have less literal meaning and therefore tend to the poetic); and second, the sprawling nature of open-ended serial fiction (which adds greater length to the narrative and therefore tends to the prosaic).
Added to these facts, and to recent trends in comics (the controversy over 'decompressed storytelling' and 'writing for the trade'), are broader anxieties relating to a postmodern sensibility and the role that the internet plays in our lives. A superabundance of fiction and of commentary on fiction, combined with the finitude of human life (more apparent as one approaches its end) and the fact that the free time of working Joes is limited, means that there's a real tension over the way that fiction values your time.
There are also associated tensions between the old and the new, which is why comedian and über-geek Patton Oswalt has been creating a stir over the festive season with his article at http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/12/ff_angrynerd_geekculture/all/1 which argues that ETEWAF (Everything That Ever Was Available Forever) needs to be brought to the point of singularity, in the hope that the value we place upon our time and the fiction we engage with will somehow come to make sense again. (I think that's wishful thinking on his part.)
Smitty's comment above – 'it seems criminal to take that much space – that much real estate – where other action could be taking place' – reminds me of a lot of rows I see over new films. New films are hyped to death, and then people's expectations aren't met. Defenders of new films say 'get a grip, the film was fun and good for what it was', while detractors say 'it wasn't good enough, I want two hours of my life back'. (I find that the simple expedient of spending more time watching films than anticipating their release goes some way towards mitigating this, but doesn't entirely resolve the problem. Plus, is it wrong to want films to be outstanding, or is that by definition – 'outstanding' meaning 'rising above the rest' – something that only a select few can ever achieve?)
The problem with the never-ending serial fiction of comics is more tangled still. Some of us want the Avengers concept (woolly though it is) to be exploited forever, while others only want that to happen if the product is clearly worth our time. Depending on one's mood and circumstances, a work of fiction that doesn't value your time can be really aggravating.
Finally, I believe one reason why your blog attracts the loyal readers it does is because while your commentary has extensiveness (the eclectic mix of comics and ideas you address), it also has more intensiveness than is readily available elsewhere, and we really value that.
Alex S
A round table read of a couple specific current issues would be a real thrill with this group!
ReplyDelete(Not necessary to post to the comments just wanted to toss in my two cents on your idea.)
"It has NEVER been the success that it is under BMB. Never."
ReplyDeleteWell it depends on how you measure success surely. The Avengers has definitely sold a lot more (as an individual comic book, I'd assume in its heyday the one book has outsold the entire combined sales of the Avengers family of book, as mentioned in 1996 The Avengers sold 276k, at the end of 2010 Avengers was on 89k and New Avengers on 66k, solid enough sales in charts where the top selling back might not reach 6 figures but historically, even in recent history, not that great) and the team book was the core of some of the biggest storylines in Marvel history long before BMB took the reins.
That said, I do agree that, at the moment, The Avengers, is the heart of the Marvel Universe. However, this is possibly a cause for concern as Marvel do have all their eggs in one basket and, as I mentioned above, this is a basket that could easily be snatched up by more lucrative offers in other media. DC have a number of architects (as wonderfully portrayed in Doctor 13) and, at this moment in time, Morrison and Johns are driving the success of the Batman and Green Lantern franchises. Marvel is Bendis at the moment, and that is a powerful position for him but a precarious one for them. It may say more about the failure of the recent X-Men storylines to set the charts and people's hearts alight and that the up and coming superstar writers (Fraction and Hickman) need a little more time to settle into their roles on the other major pillars on the Marvel Universe. I'm sure Bendis is in it for the long run and the new generation of writers will blossom under his wing but the whole kit and kaboodle could also be derailed.
"If I may, I'd like to add that I'm convinced that the popular view that BMB's Avengers books are 2-second reads is often - not always, but often - quite wrong."
And now here I am regretting not timing myself reading it, but you are indeed correct. I found myself thinking about the Incredible Hercules while reading it, mainly because I enjoyed Ares a lot more in that story, but, as we touched on elsewhere, it is a really quick read and I can guarantee I got through all the IH trades in much less time than the DA one. There are obviously signs of decompression in there (lots of page-wide panels and splash pages, which recall Ellis' run on The Authority that pioneered such widescreen comics) but it is actually pretty dense with text. I might go back and count up the amount of pagetime given over to Norman Osbourne talking but I'd eat my hat (if I could find one to fit my giant bonce) if it is less than 50%. Given the context of this, in stripped down scenes not filled with action, it forces you to take your time and read his words, so it is far from a work that can be skimmed through, if you did you'd get little from it, if you do then there is a lot to compliment in it, as long as you weren't expecting an action adventure series.
"Sure, if it's dull, poorly constructed or whatever, then it needs discussing and the points explaining"
And it is often analysing where something fails that allows you to get under the skin of how everything works, especially in the Big Two where, as you say, everyone is bringing some degree to craft to the table and this has all jumped through editorial hoops to get to the page.
And yes, if I got 3 wishes I suspect one of them would be to stop people saying "X is crap" when they meant "I didn't like X," if the wish allowed me to also get people to say why then... happy days. Bring on the genie!
Hello Smitty:- I've always been intending to review the Avengers collection of the currently on-going time travel story with John Romita Jr art. It's out in February with an Isbn of 0785145001. I'm not suggesting anyone buys the whole thing of course- that'd be a cheek and a sign of a fatal hubris! - but if you or anyone else had one of the issues collected in that issue, comments could be added in as much detail or not as anyone wanted. So, if I'm not making sense, and I fear I'm not, I'll review the whole shebang and throw open the comments if folks would like a general chat. It doesn't matter if its you'n'me batting ideas around, though it'd be splendid to have other folks along, as it always is. (And it is, as well.)
ReplyDeleteDoes that sound workable, Smitty? We could even decide on a specific issue beforehand. I'll be deep into my writing gig by then, so anything more sophisticated will probably be beyond me, but I'd LOVE to host such a conversation, and indeed, will sulk if it's taken anywhere else.
Any and all ideas would be most appreciated. Thank you Smitty!
Hello Alex:- I'm sorry I'm answering this out of sequence. Blogger put your comment into the spam and so I came to it late.
ReplyDeleteThank you for the fascinating ideas you present in the above, and for how you picked up on that single line which for me has a considerable importance at the moment. I am indeed giving considerable thought and effort into simplifying my consumption of just about everything. One of the reasons for this is that I know that, as you write, endless consumption of even high-quality material at pace is a self-defeating business. And I am of course running out of time to fritter away trying to read every book and comic in the world, not to mention watch every film and listen to every single piece of music. Part of the reason for my coming to this conclusion is grounded in this blog, and in the clearminded decency and intelligence of the words of those who are kind enough to contribute. Because I've found I've learned alot more from slowing down and REALLY STARING at, for example, a small number of the Lee/Kirby and the BMB Avengers issues. It's not that I intend to read nothing at all. I'll be reading all I can. But I shan't be reading MORE than I can. (Have you read the first couple of chapters of John Sutherland's How To Read A Novel on this subject?)
You're so right to identify the key issue of meaning, the business of feeling that we're receiving an experience that justifies our involvement and enriches our experience. At its worst, this can lead to a sense of reader's/watcher's/listener's anxiety, and even the awful spectre of buyer's entitlement!
That's a cracking link to Mr Oswalt's piece, and he makes his points well without being over-worthy, doesn't he? My feeling is that the solution to the problem could in part be engage differently to the material. I think the more I struggle with this blog, the more I realise that part of the problem is the unsupported opinion, and part of that is reader's entitlement, which reduces the experience to a coarse cost/benefit analysis based around "I WANTED & I WANTED IT EXACTLY AS I WANTED IT". Talking to the folks here has helped me give up the idea that my opinion matters for anything other than opening up a debate, and however guileless that sounds, I find myself believing it. And trying to grasp the structure of what I'm reading as much as the surface makes me feel less as if I'm trying to claim an area of culture for myself so much as explore an area of culture so I can respect it more.
Of course, that doesn't mean abandoning judgements. You quite rightly point out that in a world of hype and endless consumption, folks deserve to feel satisfied, and by extension, they deserve to express disappointment when their money doesn't buy them a sense of a worthwhile investment. But in a world of ever changing forms and ever developing skills, for good and ill, I suspect we're all going to have to constantly re-learn how to experience fiction, even if its only to discover that a particular mutation isn't for us.If, having engaged with a form and found it really is wasting our time, as you discuss, then out with it! Illustrated screenplays, for example, have none of BMB's craft and are usually lazy waste-of-times. But then, on occasion, that form can come up trumps. I suspect the solution in part is again in the process of experiencing, so that regardless of the content of the work, the experience of coming to terms with it is rewarding.
Gosh. Intensiveness. In the context you're so kindly using the term, that's a terrifically generous thing to say. Thank you! I hope you and yours enjoy a new year that's at least as generous as you've been in your visits to this blog!
Hello Emperor:- you're teaching me to be as tenacious as you are. I still say that what counts is a book's success in relative terms. How is a book, or a fleet of books, doing relative to the market it's in. Not how many copies did it sell at a particular moment, but what was top of the tree and for how long had that been so? In those terms, BMB's Avengers is a phenomena that's passed considerably unnoticed in several important quarters.
ReplyDeleteBut I've been thinking about your comments about BMB and his transferable skills re: other mediums, and the consequences of such for the MU. Of course, he's already contributing to a huge number of other projects, such as Powers and Jessica Jones and Spidey animated, but Marvel gives him access and security to do that. THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'VE GOT!!!! I suspect that the recently announced "architects" at Marvel reflect something of the concerns you raise, the idea that the ship as a whole might benefit from having more hands on the wheel.
On DA:absolutely! I was writing about just that point when I reviewed Scarlet earlier this year and I actually got - can you believe this? - several unprintable comments about what a rotter BMB is and how I was clearly a toadie for suggesting he tried to pack his comics with value. His solution - and its one of the developments I was mentioning to you earlier - is to include decompression but compensate for it with a dense and demanding mass of reading elsewhere in the same text. It's just not decompression, but I've rarely seen it discussed for the obviously deliberate strategy it is. (It's obvious because he repeats it in different forms and in places intensifies the text-heavy sections when a great deal of action is being delivered elsewhere. He really is concerned to deliver value for money and he does so in a way that permits decompressive elements, demanded by the market and of course developed in part by himself, to exist. He has a series of strategies for doing so, fo course, including even extra-story material such as the letters pages of Powers and the Oral History Of The Avengers project. I may not think some of his techniques work as well as straight paternalism, but surely folks should be noticing what he's doing more and giving him credit for trying. I've not read much of the DA run, but I'd be amazed if what passes as true for his other books isn't so there. It just seems terribly unfair for folks to beat him up for being a 2-second read merchant when he's worked so hard not to be so.
I mean, what does BMB need me to argue his case? But there is an injustice of sorts there. Credit should be granted where it's due, as I know you fiercely believe.
I'm with you on just getting folks to say "why" as well as "I believe". One day, Emperor, when the millennium has arrived and the lamb can playfully smack the lion across the head without ending up being snacked upon ...
This point you've been developing in recent blogs and comments, about the difference between 'this isn't any good' and 'this isn't what I expected or paid for', is a really good one. So is the related attempt to examine one's own gut reactions and what lies behind them. Also, the distaste for incumbency that sees our culture develop a critical blind spot for unobtrusively successful work is worth rectifying, and I'm glad you're taking on the job.
ReplyDeleteThere are a couple of things I find difficult about the 'bang for your buck' calculations surrounding media consumption in savvy, oversaturated times, understandable though these calculations are. The first is that they risk crowding out minimalist or meditative works, which have their place and are sometimes among my favourite works in any medium. The second is that the 'time capsule' aspect of fiction means that there's an extent to which the value it acquires for subsequent generations is unpredictable. Yesterday's filler is tomorrow's object of fascination, filled as it is with unintentional details of how people lived, thought and spoke.
Patton Oswalt's piece is hilarious and makes several good points (and his TV/film acting and his stand-up comedy are good value and worth checking out as well). The only two things I dislike about the article are the 'things were better in my day before everyone else had access to my secret hobby horse' subtext that it flirts with (and almost succeeds in mitigating with its charm), and the notion that we're really anywhere close to everything in every medium being easily available. Things are better than they were in the past for people with esoteric tastes, but there are many gems still inaccessible, and an archivist's job is never done. (Then there are the ongoing conflicts of interest and opinion over intellectual property regulation, which I won't go into here, but which complicate matters somewhat.)
I've not read that book of John Sutherland's, but I do like his journalistic writing and will pursue your recommendation. (Coincidentally, I bumped into Sutherland at a party once, but was too nervous to think of anything to say to him. There have been other occasions when I've met people whose work I liked and said something glib or inappropriate, and then wished the ground would swallow me up, so nowadays I don't pipe up just for the sake of it unless I've got something really worthwhile to say!) I did notice your plug for John Carey's fine book 'The Intellectuals and the Masses' in the comments the other day, and while the Bloomsbury set were responsible for one or two decent things, I share your and Carey's disdain for their view of the great unwashed.
Happy New Year to you and yours as well!
Alex S
"That in itself should be enough to make everyone DESPERATE to work out how and why."
ReplyDeleteI think you nailed this back in Part 1 when you said it's because Bendis threw out the 'traditional style'* and nobody knew what was going to happen, and he was doing that since he started. Disassembled was promoted as this big, shocking, death-strewn, status-quo-nuking thing that wasn't anything like what we'd seen before, and soon after we knew that it'd be replaced by a New Avengers, and it was by Bendis who had a reputation for doing shocking new stuff and reworkings of characters. This was "Nothing Will Be The Same!" that you could actually believe was true because of who was doing it.
- Charles RB
* What was perceived as traditional style, anyway, since as you point out, if you compare Bendis to the "everyone teams up to punch things and stuff blows up and the cast changes so often no one from #1 is in it from #16" then he's being pretty darn Avengers
"I've not read much of the DA run, but I'd be amazed if what passes as true for his other books isn't so there."
ReplyDeleteIndeed, I was able to read it with the things you mentioned in mind, and it definitely helped me appreciate it more. I even had a few chuckles at certain points where I recognised things you'd mentioned. ;) So you were bang on. Which, of course, is an excellent test of what you've been saying - you passed with flying colours.
"It just seems terribly unfair for folks to beat him up for being a 2-second read merchant when he's worked so hard not to be so."
I think if your reaction to the previous piece isn't "Ahhhhhhh now I see" but is instead some kind of nasty accusations then the problem lies with them (which doesn't mean they have to actually 'like' the comic, but at least they'd understand it, you'd hope, and not paint you as some kind of fellow traveller or apologist). The only way it is a quick read is if you are used to skimming through an all-action-all-of-the-time decompressed comic book picking up a snarky one liner in between punches. You just can't skim his work, I'd have thought it would have been impossible to do but if you tried it'd just not work.
"I mean, what does BMB need me to argue his case?"
Because he'd come across as a monster if he did it himself, "See this is what you are missing, you peasant!!!", and it sometimes needs an unbiased third party to point such things out.
Hello Alex:- "I'm glad you're taking on the job" - that made me smile and thank you for that. I think the thing about blogging is that over a period of time it allows the blogger to discover what they're most interested in, and yet at the same time adds the pressure - a small pressure, but a real one - of making such discoveries in public. That compels the blogger to make sense of their tastes in a way which no other medium would, and it means that making constant mistakes is ALWAYS part of the process. It's a process which isn't common in any other medium, namely knowing nothing and trying to work out where to start learning and why, while nearly always being wrong. There's never been anything like the possibilities for a daft-headed individual to keep worrying and worrying away at such matters as are thrown around here. It's a far more intense process than university, for example, for there are no specific guides and the feedback here & elsewhere on the net can be immediate and damning.
ReplyDeleteBecause of the above, I suspect Bloomsbury would have been a pack of compulsive bloggers, though they may well have had their own members-only boards. And, of course, by being snotty about their snobbery, I didn't mean to imply that their work was worthless. Wolfe's diaries are as fascinating as she can often be quite unknowingly odious. But then, who can't be?
Yet you're quite right that the marketplace can't be in effect held to be the ultimate arbiter of excellence. Just because a work doesn't hold that bang-for-a-buck quality in excess doesn't mean it's not valid and indeed even excellent. To assume that the market is somehow a machine for isolating and promoting excellence is of course daft. And yet my highest ambition is nearly always directed at those who have been both excellent in their craft and successful in the market. To command both aspects of the work - its quality and the attention of others - marks just about everyone I most admire. There are many exceptions of course, but one of the reasons I find comics so facinating is that crushing pressure of a most individual and demanding marketplace; if excellence can be achieved therein even as sales are earned, the achievement is just incredible.
On Oswalt's piece; I share your concern about the geek claiming his geekdom was a better one, but I do understand his concern about access, though for some allied if somewhat different reasons. Little has been as destructive for popular music, for example, as the impossibility of groups of musicians and wanna-be musicians having time to develop as "scenes" out of the public eye. The Beatles overnight success in 62/3 was founded on seven years of failure before in a culture of one-night stands and horrendous if enervating seasons in Hamburg. There are few creators who don't benefit from a long season free of the machine in order to master their craft and create their own identity. But in terms of access to the material itself, the problem isn't the access, the problem is the pressure to consume it in greater and greater amounts and to conform to some hierachy of taste in doing so. I forget who pointed out that the more free folks, they more they copy others, but it has more than a whiff of truth about it. Access more, consume less might be a motto for 2011 if I could recast it into Latin.
I hope that makes some kind of sense. My best to you, Alex, and well done for restraining yourself with Mr Sutherland. As a man who can say the wrong thing when buying a train ticket or handing back a dropped key, I admire your restraint.
Hello Charles:- I wish I'd been as succinct as you were there! Really! And when you write in such a concise fashion, any question of why BMB's Avengers should've been so successful just melts away, doesn't it? (Mind you, it's the fact that such questions are STILL being asked that is most surprising. Has there ever been a niche market that ever argued for change and hated it more than we comics fans?)
ReplyDeleteAnd of course, the final irony; yes, he was only responding to the underlying purpose of The Avengers anyway! Team 'em up, knock 'em down! Which, regardless of taste, and I am more old school than not myself, is exactly what he's done. Good for him!
Hello Emperor:- thank you for that report from the frontline of DA reading. When I was mentioning to you some developments in writing in the US, one of them I was thinking of was BMB's very clever method of seeming to offer to a deconstructionist read while in truth presenting something far more carefully, densely and interestingly constructed. Obviously, not all of his work is woven from the same cloth to the same degree, but at his best, he provides fare which can be consumed quickly - & what's wrong with that? - and which yet offers far more too. The details of doing that - the text-heavy sections, the jumps between those & the action scenes, the way he uses splash pages in a different fashion from, say, Mark Millar - are all really careful and effective, and yet I don't see the knowledge of that percolating into other's work. The odd thing is, the surface aspects of his work have travelled, but the deep structure hasn't so much. Yet, for example, there's much that could be adapted for 5/6 page chapters in 2000ad. I'm not saying that I'd prefer that to old school methods, I'm just saying that's alot of technical options that've been developed and in other genres you'd expect to see such innovation noted and aped. It's less obvious in comics, but then, it strikes me that most likely these options have been noted, tried out in private and then discarded. That would make sense, for who'd ignore new ideas out of hand? Ah, now I feel somewhat stupid, as, indeed, I so often do .....
ReplyDeleteWhat I find most amusing is that I'm no more a Bendis-booster than I am a Millar-booster. But it's SUCH a fascinating medium, isn't it? I know you share that opinion. Whyever would anyone not spend their time stealing from here and there and synthesising what they've been inspired to note?
"Yet, for example, there's much that could be adapted for 5/6 page chapters in 2000ad."
ReplyDeleteCould it though? As I'm reading it I wonder how elements could be applied elsewhere (or improved on as there are other elements to his storytelling that are much less effective) and I just can't see how it could be applied to the hyper-compressed storytelling you need to do in 2000AD. There just isn't room for those long strings of speech bubbles that start to resemble pearl necklaces (the actual ones not the slang ones). Last night I read one that went something like:
Hey
Hey
Hey?
What?
And on and on.*
That said if you look at both of Alec Worley's first series we see an attempt to add a mass of text but during scenes that have action and movement (or at least parts of the story being told), which resulted in the pace dropping right off. Bendis demonstrates perfectly that text = pace, if you want fast-moving chases and derring-do then you have to throttle-back on the text and you are going to have to use the quiet moments in between for any talking. Which is tricky in a story like Age of the Wolf, as that needed to keep moving at a pace. However, if it was a more traditional post-apocalyptic/horror story then you could deploy the text in the quiet moments deliberately to slow the pace down, as the key to those stories can be the stop/start (squeeze/release, tension/action) where the survivors spend possibility the majority of the time hunkering down in terror, which then makes the outbreaks of violence far more jarring. Of course, you don't need to have ever read anything by Bendis to do this (I have been contemplating a post-apocalyptic tale with a stop-start pacing) but a) it does underline very strongly the importance of using text to pace a story b) it could be you could take Bendis' example to heart, which would give you the confidence to really push this angle, forcing people to focus on the words (rather than trying to spice it up by having action all the time) and c) it may be that it is an angle that can be easily overlooked in comics (where you'd never be able to get away with soliloquies in a chase scene in film or TV) and so it does need explicitly stating.
"It's less obvious in comics, but then, it strikes me that most likely these options have been noted, tried out in private and then discarded. That would make sense, for who'd ignore new ideas out of hand? Ah, now I feel somewhat stupid, as, indeed, I so often do ....."
You, perhaps, give the creators far too much credit ;) Although it might be editors have largely seen this kind of thing done in a rather ham-fisted way (it is something that could go horribly wrong if not done with some skill) and will request rewrites if there is even a whiff of this in a script.
* That was actually in the first Secret Warriors trade, by luck I am on a bit of a Bendis roll (OK I did shuffle this up the to-read" pile given the recent chat) although it is interesting seeing him working with a co-writer on a different style of book (superheroes meets spies) and that is the most recognisable Bendisism in it, although they do also tend to end on a bit of a momentous moment shown in a full page (which is something I seem to recall you highlighting about Millar's work).
Hello Emperor:- bless you for immediately grasping that I wasn't arguing for a Bendis-a-fied 2000ad, but rather for a consideration of how his techniques might be applied. And I agree entirely with you about your identification of the confusion over the tex/action ratio in Dandridge, and if nought else, BMB does point out that relationship in exactly the way you describe.
ReplyDeleteTo give an example, I found the last SinisterDexter tale to be slow and text-heavy. What if a great deal of that text had been arranged in concentrated BMB-like pages, so that there was then space for more exciting pages which need offer little but spectacle. After all, that SD story wasn't concerned to entertain anything but committed longterm readers, so the use of such a technique could've opened up the 5 pages to the presence of spectacle as well as text.
It's not that BMB can - of course, as you say - be used to inform every or even most stories. His are just one of a series of sets of techniques in use, but they're all, if you like, tools in the toolbox. And too often, I don't see folks seeming to ask themselves "How would John Wagner/Wally Wood/Gail Simone/A.N.Other" approach this. It's that sense of a taken for granted, standard-progression approach to storytelling that seems at times quite constraining that does wear me down a touch. And it's notable that Al Ewing DOES seem to question which form to adapt for the content at hand, as in Damnation Station. More please!
To suggest that Mark Millar has anything to teach 2000ad is of course an irony in the light of his history with the comic, and yet his technique of identifying key spectacular moments and emphasising them in his scripts really does need requiring. The lack of WOW-LOOK-AT-THAT! moments in 2000ad is often quite remarkable.
By which I mean, with just those two writers, a host of options appear to bog-standard traditional story-telling. To replace the Brit 2000ad tradition entirely or even substantially would be cultural vandalism. But there are more options out there open to being mixed into the brew, if I may stumble as I express m'self!
Ironically enough, the best of recent US techniques allow both the spectacular and the wordily intimate to be emphasised, despite the first and not the second being commonly commented upon. I can't help but feel that some of 2000ad desperately needs that. It needs more SPECTACLE and more HUMAN INTIMACY too. In m'own opinion. Just having one strip approaching things differently as we're discussing here would bring much-needed variety to the comic, although I've not read the X-Mas issue yet, so I may well well behind recent developments.
As always, an interesting, thoughtful piece, Colin. I get what you're saying - Brian Bendis can subvert the superhero story because he knows the traditional forms so well. And perhaps his playfulness is indeed a large part of why his Avengers books sell so well - though it can't hurt having the likes of Wolverine and Spider-Man in there.
ReplyDeleteBut call me a curmudgeon ... several pages of near-motionless talk followed by several pages of silent action just isn't my cup of tea. I like superhero comics that blend interesting visuals with engaging words, rather than those which take turns at giving us each. And I don't think Brian Bendis is great at giving different heroes distinct voices - when I dip into the Avengers, in the hope I'll be grabbed for a long period, the constant wisecracking by everyone puts me off.
Still, there are plenty of other comics out there, so carry on enjoying!
Hello Mart:- the more I study Mr Bendis's work, the more I warm to it, and the more I enjoy it, even for, or should I say "especially for", the things that he does in his work that don't tend to be present in work closer to my established taste. He really is so technically gifted and so individual in how he writes. He has to be a tremendously hard-working and determined bloke who thinks a great deal about the business of writing and the genres and mediums he's working with. As such, I feel that I'm being given something in his work that I'm not being offered elsewhere, though it was only after reviewing Scarlet that I started to feel that way. I fully recognise the problems you raise, but as with alot of art, what you get comes at a cost. Replace BMB's choices with more paternalistic options and it wouldn't be BMB anymore. I certainly wouldn't challenge your well-reasoned problems, but even when the disadvantages you mention are at their most obvious, I find the deal being offered by BMB's work is still a good, if on occasion problematical, one for me.
ReplyDelete"To give an example, I found the last SinisterDexter tale to be slow and text-heavy. What if a great deal of that text had been arranged in concentrated BMB-like pages, so that there was then space for more exciting pages which need offer little but spectacle."
ReplyDeleteIndeed - an excellent example, there was really no need to give the talky bits so much real estate. That said there is no reason that had to be a talky bit at all. I am unsure if I mentioned it here but alternative takes on this could have either involved them having a firefight in electrical store, with the TV on in the background, or they are chasing their target through a series of apartments with the TV on in the background. You could then drop in any really talky bits into moments of stillness. I think trying to have a hybrid (lots of talking during action or just layering on text while also trying to move the story on at a pace) is going to be the worst of both worlds.
"And too often, I don't see folks seeming to ask themselves "How would John Wagner/Wally Wood/Gail Simone/A.N.Other" approach this."
Wagner is a tricky one, like the scripts themselves, the key seems to be a brevity (famously one of his panel descriptions is "Dredd angry"), which fits the kind of tales he seems to write these days: tough men in a tough world doing tough things - banter and repeated one-liners wouldn't really work (although there is the opportunity for some pithy remark at the end).
"The lack of WOW-LOOK-AT-THAT! moments in 2000ad is often quite remarkable."
Yes, the problem with Millar's work is that you often feel like these spectacles are the point (and in Nemesis some issues seem to be just a loose string of these) but there is no reason they can't be included.
I am a bit of a fan of such awe-inducing moments but it can be tricky fitting them and a story into the allotted half a dozen pages or under. However, it doesn't need to be a full page splash, if you also give the spectacle meaning and weight you can really boost the impact (just thinking about it I have a reveal in a story on Zarjaz's books at the moment which takes up the top half of a page and, hopefully, the context and what it implies give it the added punch it needs that wouldn't be enhanced by putting it across two pages). As 2000AD includes a lot of sci-fi you'd think there would be plenty of opportunities for some more "oh wow" moments.
"To replace the Brit 2000ad tradition entirely or even substantially would be cultural vandalism."
But I don't think there is a 2000AD tradition and I don't think adding a little more spectacle or humanity in would cause riots (even amongst he fans ;) ), it might be partly down to the writers' style combined with the difficulty of making the techniques work with the restricted page count (22 pages gives you much more room to play). However, none of those techniques are... revolutionary (as I've mentioned before I'd be interested to see pushing the visual and storytelling potential, as Morrison tried in Marvel Boy) and you'd hope that they'd crop up in 2000AD in some form. That said it is well worth flagging such techniques as it might help register it on a few radars.
"although I've not read the X-Mas issue yet, so I may well well behind recent developments. "
Hmmm, don't hold your breath, although Henry Flint does bring a lot of the wow factor in his Shakara art.
Hello Emperor:- I think what's most important is a debate about what methods to use, and by "important", I of course mean for you and I sharpening our ideas, rather than the good ship 2000ad, which of course requires nothing of importance from myself!
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure that a heavy-text/sensational-picture split on SD would be a bad idea at all. But beyond the issues we've discussed, perhaps I might suggest that variety is indeed something which 2000AD often seems to lack. I'd like to see different narrative styles present, and by that I mean different styles rather than variations of a rather traditional house-style. And there is such a house style, in that, as we've discussed before, a rather careful and old-school approach to storytelling does predominate. Now, that's the style I like, I really do, but we need, if not a thousand flowers blooming, then a FEW more. In particular, a greater attention to SPECTACULARISM is surely necessary. Identifying a single key visual in each chapter and emphasising it could only be a good thing for at least a few strips in each prog. I want more GOSH and I want more WOW! I don't mean that that means LOUD and HARD-PUNCHING scenes as a matter of course. Some of the most effective moments in 2010 were panels where, for example, Mega-City One was shown from a different perspective, in the light of sunrise or from a hyper-tall tower block. But the emphasise needs to be on moving the reader. If I can read a chapter without my emotions being touched or my eye being in some way intriqued, then someone isn't doing their job. Now, that's an argument over-simplified for the sake of adding it here, but it's not a poor summary for how I feel.
I do agree that the drive towards spectacle can leave nothing but spectacle, but all things in moderation.
I think I'll go back and take a look at Mr Wagner's scripting again so I can better debate with you whether he has a style which is ape-able. My suspicion is that he does have, but I know better than to debate with you without the facts at my beck and call.
On the same basis, I need to go back and identify exactly why I think there IS a 2000ad housestyle. I could well be wrong, but do think it's normally so.
Ah, the research never stops. And when I invent my time-machine and my de-ager ray, I can take all the little things I'm trying to understand here and still fail to get a job in comics in the Sixties, where I can at least make myself feel better by buying TV21 in newsagents and watching England win the Word Cup.
"I want more GOSH and I want more WOW!"
ReplyDeleteMe too. As you say it needn't be a splash page of an elaborate space battle but it should have some impact - the kind that sticks in your mind so when you think back on the story or issue it is something which comes to mind. So for example, when I think back on Low Life you get struck by strong images but also great ideas and moving character moments (going back to earlier stories you have baby ninjas, Frank as a battle angel fighting the Devil and Frank in a heavy metal band, but before him there was a fatty impaled on the spire of a building and you can't go wrong with Henry Flint as an artist as he seems to understand the need for spectacle and pushes it, there are wow moments in Shakara. Chris Weston is another one - look at Killing Time for example or both runs of Cannon Fodder, there are pages there that never leave you, pushing Jack the Ripper through a harp and the encounters with God or Gods in them both. Granted the writer sets these up but it seems the artist is the one who has to deliver. Kevin O'Neill in stories like Nemesis also spring to mind. Its not a surprise that all those artists place very highly in my list of favourite artists, if I were to actually make a list). I'd struggle to think of similar scenes in say Slaine or ABC Warriors.
"I think I'll go back and take a look at Mr Wagner's scripting again so I can better debate with you whether he has a style which is ape-able."
Oh he does have an ape-able style but the tightness and brevity is often something that comes with time and confidence. Newer writers tend to go mad with their descriptions, trying to describe everything in the scene and specify camera angles. They also want to show they can write by burying the page in text. Wagner is like one of those master painters who can bring the viewer to the point of tears with just a few brush strokes, where a novice may layer on paint to little effect. he can invoke Dredd with a swish of his pen and that is something that might take a lifetime to learn or it may be just something he was born with. The lesson he does bring is that less can be more.
Hello Emperor:- I do think that if one or two strips were a touch more GOSH/WOW, if I may put it that way, then quieter and even static pieces elsewhere in each prog would work as counter-points. It also strikes me that there's been a range of moments recently which would really have benefitted from full-page shots ramping up the spectacle. It's not that I'm not a "story" reader, if again my early-morning mind might put things that way; in fact, for me the story is usually the element of a strip that I respond most to. But last year has really been an education for me where MY prejudices are concerned, and them big eye-catching spectacles are, if done well, incredible plus points for comic books.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the artists you mention. There are indeed few of the various TPBs and HBs on my bookshelf which have been produced by artists who don't know when to go the whole Kirby, or O'Neil, or Weston .....
I agree with you about the restraint and control of Mr Wagner's writing. Beyond that, I can't say anymore, because I know I don't enough about the detail of Mr Wagner's work. He's so able that a great deal of what he does is invisable, as it were. Investigating such will be a pleasure .....
Shakara, Numbercrunchers and Insurrection look set to get some of the "GOSH/WOW" in - Insurrection was really good with that in its first run. Kingdom hasn't done much yet but I'm confident it will, it had some stunningly done moments previously (usually hooked to a story twist).
ReplyDeleteTwo of those are Abnett strips, I've just realised - and his Marvel Cosmic work does the same thing. He's very good at it. Which makes Sinister Dexter rather odd: I have to assume he's deliberately holding back.
re ABC Warriors "GOSH/WOW" moments: the Khronikles of Khaos had a number of moments because it was so free-wheelingly mental and giving Kev Walker so much mad stuff to draw, and Shadow Warriors (a crap story) did give Henry Flint some awesome visuals. And the Volgan War almost survives solely cos of the art, because even the bits I think are tosh keep my eyes because the art is so stunning.
That said, the reprinted Darkest Star undeniably gives Dobynn some awesome visuals to draw and I'm still bored. Except for that scene with the Gronk and Johnny. (If pressed, I'm not sure if I'd say Final Solution or Darkest Star has the best death for Johnny...)
- Charles RB
Hello Charles:- from pretty much the very beginning of this blog, I've been able to rely on you to provide me with inspirational further reading. And I know little if anything at all of the strips you're describing, but as always, after reading what you've had to say, I want to!
ReplyDeleteThe Sinister Dexter scripts are something of a puzzle, aren't they? I've felt uncomfortable criticising them because I've a keen feeling that I'm missing something. Yet, it's hard to grasp why such a talented writer would have written those scripts as he did. Or at least, to be fair, it is from the perspective of my limited understanding of the form. I look forward to the next run of the strip and to getting a ggreater measure of fondness for the story as a whole.
Darkest Star? OK. I'll hunt out, though what it says about comic books that characters can have a hierachy of "best deaths" .... !
I'm sure Abnett's going for a deliberate affect in SinDex, but not sure what. He may be going for a moody, slow-burning one, but the art - Williams has a very clear style and the colouring is bright - doesn't seem quite right for that. (Simon Davies was around for some Dexters that did that)
ReplyDeleteDarkest Star is included with this week's Meg, so if you're still subscribed it'll turn up if you like it or not! ;) (Poor Johnny, he got killed TWICE in two years...)
- Charles RB
Charles, you're right, I do have Darkest Star. (Couldn't give up my 2000ad sub, which told me that I just needed to re-think how I write about the comic rather than walk away from it!)
ReplyDeleteBut I'm not sure that I actually want to read about another death for JA. Daft as it sounds, I'm still rather caught up in the as-yet unresolved tale of his return, which did greatly move me.
Hi Colin,
ReplyDeleteI've been devouring this blog for the past month or so, but it has taken me a while to work up the courage to comment - you are one of those rare writers who manages to say everything that really needs to be said, so your articles feel (to me at least) pretty much conclusive as opposed to simply springboards to discussion. It doesn't help that I am helpless intimidated by everyone else here. :)
I have to say, though, that it's great to see some genuine discussion of Bendis' work on the Avengers. It's interesting that you are working on a Mark Millar book, as I think that Bendis' work has been easily overshadowed by the discussion Millar generated with The Ultimates, while Bendis is attempting something similar and yet markedly different - I'd argue that Bendis is the writer saddled with the more difficult task, if only because of the legacy of the title and the editorial and creative burden imposed on him (while Millar had pretty much a free hand to create - or recreate - Bendis is charged with the more difficult task of reconciling everything ever).
It's not made any easier by the fact that there's much more "weight" on Bendis' Avengers as a franchise property than there ever was on Millar's work. So any discussion on the Avengers inevitably becomes a discussion on the state of Marvel's editorial policy or devolves into a discussion about the nature of modern "event comic books". As you said yourself, Bendis has been the driving force behind the book at a time when it went from a single monthly book in the top 30 to three or four monthly books in the top 10. The discussion on business aspect of how Marvel sells the books tends to somewhat overshadow the more interesting discussion of how Bendis actually writes the books.
I'm not going to say that one is better or worse than the other, just that critical discussion of Millar's work on The Ultimates seems to overshadowed Bendis' work on the mainstream Avengers titles.
Sorry, that was probably a ramble. Anyway, I just wanted to say that it's a great article and I'm looking forward to following your thoughts as I move onto the next one.
Hello Darren:- thank you for your kind words. They are very much appreciated. And thanks for commenting too, because I too find myself hesitating before commenting on other people's blogs, and the more I like a blog, the less I tend to feel I have to add.
ReplyDeleteThat's a really good point about the relative attention that's been given to BMB and Mr Millar. It might be that Mr Bendis has been so ubiquitous that it's been hard for some folks to notice how innovative and able BMB he is. He's always there, giving the impression of being a fixed point rather than that of someone far more important and radical than can at any moment often appear. In such a way, Mr Bendis's constancy and productivity can work against his own reputation now, though I suspect that both qualities will lead to his future reputation being a far more substantial one. Once he's no longer producing as much as he is and for the publisher he currently is, his absence after all that work will be, to turn a cliché, deafening.
You're right that the matter of Mr Bendis's commercial and editorial importance also counts against him in the sense that his value as a writer becomes hopelessly bound up with a whole series of wider, and often non-creative, aspects of the business. It's astonishing how often a creator's presence in the public eye obscures rather than illuminates their value. I can recall as a young lad in the late Sixties being told that The Beatles, pre-Abbey Road, were yesterday's men. Not to compare BMB to the Beatles in any way beyond that point, but sometimes a great deal of success can indeed obscure value.
And of course Millar has tended to focus on limited series rather than the marathon of open-ended properties, which means that, as you point towards, it's far easier for him to create a specific effect, and a lasting one, than it often is for BMB.
Which is not to tale the side of one or another. Different writers working in different but similar areas of the genre are, as you suggest, rather difficult to compare without being unfair. (But the Ultimates was - with exception of Hawkeye's fingernails - ! - a wonderful book, wasn't it?)
It certainly was. It pretty much introduced me to comic books, I must confess. That and, appropriately enough, Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man.
ReplyDeleteI think those were the best of the Ultimate line. I like to think as superhero comics as a modern mythology, a sort of oral history, passed from one generation to the next with slight changes to the tale in each iteration - and from those changes you discern something about the people and the world telling it.
Hello Darren:- your words made me realise for probably, and rather shamefully, the first time how terrific it must have been to start off enjoying comics with those two Ultimates books. You must regard that period with considerable fondness, if not nostalgia.
ReplyDeleteAnd of course we've been reading about Mr Bendis and Mr Millar being in charge of a Ultimate line re-casting this year. Well, if I've grasped that's so, that's another chapter for the book at least, and a fascinating prospect too.
Your line about superhero comics as a modern mythology being passed and adapted from generation to generation matches Grant Morrison's thoughts on the matter, I believe. Of course, it's a comforting belief when the new generation gets a sterling set of new books, and a less heartening one when the new generation is faced with poor re-boots. I'm glad you got USM and the Ultimates!