5.
It seems that Geoff Johns isn't writing scripts anymore so much as lists. And after the fashion of the unassimilable tourist abroad, who believes that the folks around him will understand what he's saying if he only says less, talks slower and shouts louder, Mr Johns seems to feel compelled to repeat his one-note plot-points over and over again in ever more obvious ways. This degeneration of his style, and to the point to which his stories have become hard to differentiate from a blow-by-blow summary of a brief plot proposal, leaves Aquaman feeling far more like a manifesto than a comic book. It's a political broadcast from the Aquaman-Is-Cool-And-Unfairly-Under-Appreciated Party, and nothing so unnecessary as a story, it seems, is going to get between Mr Johns's convictions about the matter and the reader's brain.
Even as Mr Johns hammers home the litany over and over again, there's a curious silence in his text where key aspects of the backstory are concerned. Ignoring the doctrine of show for the convenience of tell, we're suddenly presented in the penultimate scene, for example, with Aquaman's mysterious lover, with Mera's role and character beyond cuddling and comforting her man taken almost entirely for granted. And so, while the meaning of the strip isn't trusted to lie in the sub-text, the text itself is often woefully thin on the kind of material which a new reader really might benefit from knowing. Within all these great clunking set-pieces, the one successful example of restraint and pathos can be found in the single panel representing Arthur Curry's memories of a precious moment once spent in the company of his father. (See below) Mr Johns has often proved touchingly able to put to use the absence of much-loved family members into the service of his stories, and here, just for a panel, there's a moving sense of affection and warmth matched with despair that brings the story to life for just a brief moment.
Yet even before the following panel is permitted to close, Mr Johns has the inanities of a tactless, heartless blogger - those swine - intrude once again upon Aquaman's private sorrows. On one level, I can see how arranging things this way seemed attractive when the list of bullet-points for this comic's content was typed out. To have the Sea King's sense of loss ignored by the ignorant internet commentator does help make the point again, and again and again, that Aquaman isn't respected by at least one of the cultures he's served. Yet, because the script has been so insultingly obvious and repetitive up until that point, the irritation at the intrusion felt by Arthur Curry isn't just obvious to the reader, but very possibly shared by them too. There's a difference, after all, between the reader realising that Aquaman is being aggravated and their feeling aggravated themselves, and it's the latter experience which predominates here.
For it's wearisome to have this stereotype of an Aspergic obsessive crashing the one moment's worth of silence and genuine emotion in the comic, and without their character adding anything new to the narrative either. We've already had the fat fan chomping down the calories and insisting that he knows more about Aquaman than the Sea King does.. Now we've the nasty, unshaven and greasy-haired fan who's so impossibly subsumed by his own analism that he not only challenges Aquaman, but thoroughly upsets him too. It's yet one more example of a simple beat of a story being re-emphasised to the point where the story dissolves ito the tub-thumping. Yes, the reader gets the point; Aquaman's been hard done by, and by the ignorant know-it-all's of the Rump too.
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| Appropriated in an emergency from the splendid TooDangerousForAGirl |
But in that single panel, in that scene so movingly and economically rendered by Mr Reis, in the sense of a conflicted and ill-respected man still longing for the security and love of his childhood, Aquaman # 1 feels as if it's a very fine comic book indeed. All the daftness of the presumption which underpins the comicbook dissolves into something fundamentally human. Given how absurd the premise upon which the rest of the comic is constructed, this is no little achievement. Because it's patently ridiculous that a man as powerful and as handsomely blond as Aquaman, who is after all a Justice Leaguer and a ex-King of Atlantis, would ever be held in such utter public disdain. A degree of unpopularity is always likely for any public figure, and misconceptions about Aquaman's power-set must surely exist. Yet Mr Johns seems to want us to believe that folks in the DCU's America are either quite ignorant or openly uneasy if not contemptuous of Arthur Curry. Indeed, Aquaman's petulant and ill-tempered responses to the men and women he meets can only be excused if that's so. For either he really is living in a world where his standing is impossibly and insultingly low, in which case we just might be able to sympathise with his rudeness and his only partially-repressed temper tantrums, or he's behaving like a great deal of a spoilt brat, which is hardly becoming of a Sea King or a line-leading superhero. (*1)
*1:- This paragraph was tightened up in response to Hisham's objections in the comments below, which showed that I hadn't made my point here nearly clearly enough. I'm not suggesting that Mr H. would agree with what I've written, but I am grateful for his comment.
But the police officers who Arthur encounters aren't rude or disrespectful, and it's hard to believe that the ignorami in the diner are representative of everyone in this new DCU. But Mr Johns's script leaves us no room to believe that anyone thinks positively about Aquaman at all. Indeed, he clearly blames Arthur Curry's lack of popularity upon just about everyone, and in particular upon those pesky fans and their clearly ill-informed opinions. Yet who can believe in any such a set of overwhelming problems in the first place? From all this protesting too much comes a strong sense that Mr Johns may just feel that out here in the reality of 2011, both those slandering and ill-informed members of the comics-reading community and the snipers out there in the great pop mainstream have been very unfair to poor Aquaman, and perhaps also to the Great Lister himself. Hand that feeds, meet creator's bite.
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| Yep. I can see why he wouldn't be respected by anyone. Obvious, isn't it? |
But it wasn't those fan-boys who made such a mess of Aquaman's public standing on the newstands and then in the comics shops. It was the editors and writers who were in charge of his adventures. Yet here it feels as if everyone else is getting the blame for why Aquaman's so often been a figure of fun, both in his world and in ours too. Suggesting that most of the audience has been at best lacking in attention, and at the worst cruel and bullying towards a poor innocent and virtuous property of DC Comics, certainly is a unique way of approaching the relaunch of a character. (There's notably not a single person in the whole comic beyond Mera who doesn't at best patronise Aquaman or treat him with unease. In the way of Mr Johns's lists, there's no room for nuance here; Aquaman has been hard done by.) But the very idea that this skyscraper-leaping, bullet-proof and beautifully golden servant of the public's welfare would be held in even the slightest contempt is so impossibly ludicrous. He carries with him the status of royalty and of a JLA'er. He possess the powers of a God, as well as a great deal of physical beauty. He's famous, he's been active for years, and it's hard to see why he'd be so ill-respected. (In a culture obsessed with celebrity, he'd at the very least be an object of fascination.) Perhaps we'll discover the reason for this unconvincing alienation in future issues, but for now, it's a conceit which makes no sense in anything other than cod-dramatic terms.Worse yet, it's so self-indulgently meta that it's hard not to cringe thinking of the author's priorities. Who'd engage in a debate, and something of a slapdown too, over a character's public standing when they might actually be telling a tale that's got something of human substance going for it?
Yet to read the scene in which Aquaman looses his temper when faced with the clearly socially-incompetent fan-boy's question of "How's it feel to be nobody's favourite super-hero?" is to be faced with a superhero who cares deeply about what the obsessional and dysfunctional of this world believe. And I find this a view of the man with the trident which is entirely impossible to buy into, let alone empathise with. What are we to think of an Aquaman who's concerned in the slightest about his popularity with the blogging fanboys of the DCU, or who cares because a policeman has tried to be kind in offering to him a glass of water? (Well, how dare that officer not possess an intimate knowledge of ex-King Curry's physiology? How dare he insult the King of the Seven Seas by trying to be kind to him?) (*2) Because if that's what it takes to truly upset this Sea King, this super-man of such obvious distinction and power, then who could care less about such a shallow and X-Factorised Arthur Curry? Are we supposed to truly sympathise with a superhero who's upset about not being respected enough by the general public, or rather, by a clearly inept and in truth pitiable young man claiming to speak for them. This is a facile framing of Aquaman's character which suggests that he's nothing but the spandex's brigade's equivilant of a pumped-up one-hit wonder whose recording career isn't ever taken seriously enough for his own liking. He's got all this talent, he's achieved all these great things, and yet folks just won't take him for the seriously laudable person of stature that he truly is.
*2 - There's a really pithy and telling analysis of this moment between cop and Sea-King in ralphdibney's comment below.
Oh. Poor pathetic Aquaman. He can't even sit down for a fish'n'chip supper without being bothered by the public. It's a tragedy, or at least it would be if he hadn't chosen to visit a public diner which was full of customers while he's wearing his full super-hero togs and carrying a really big trident with him. Seriously, what did he expect? If I were to stumble into my local chippie dressed as Arthur Currie's shown to be in that scene, I'd expect to be interrupted and laughed at, if not far worse, depending on the time of day. Mr Johns's obviously had on his "to-do" list for Aquaman # 1 the business of showing how the disrespect for Mr Curry comes from the inadequate and the ill-informed, if not from those who are both. These people won't even let him sprinkle vinegar on his chips! Yet what could be more misguided, if not actively arrogant, than turning up in full super-shark-fighting regalia at a crowded Sam's Seafood in bright daylight and expecting to be left alone? The lister of The Trench Part 1 obviously expected these pages to establish Aquaman as an unfairly put-upon character, while, just perhaps, getting in a few satirical digs at the self-opinionated chubbies and speccies who make up those who rudely criticise their betters from their foxholes in the blogosphere.
And the worst of the groundlings really do deserve sniping at, and perhaps their number includes your blogger here at TooBusyThinking. It's certainly easy to see why the often-insulted Mr Johns would think it both amusing and appropriate to portray the critics of Aquaman in this specific light, and I've no objection at all to a few back-of-the-handers being dished out from the Olympian heights of the offices at 1700 Broadway. But it's surely best not to take such pot-shots when the sketch in which they're embedded is so knee-deep in whine and bound by nothing but wisps of ill-logic. Next time, perhaps Arthur will leave the trident on the beach, pull a coat over his costume and a woolen hat over his hair, and, while he's at it, be respectful enough to bring the appropriate currency too. If he wants to tip in doubloons, that's all well and good. But it's a mark of a conceited so-and-so that he would walk into a business and decide that he'll pay the bill in the currency of his own choosing. "Keep the change." he brusquely tells the waitress, without bothering to either place his payment into her hand or explain what it is that he's left behind him. And then, when she's forced to come after him in order to discover what it is he's left for her, he says without smiling that she should "Put your kids through college." as if she were a scivy and he dispensing with a frown the King's largesse. It would have been more impressive if he'd have simply said "thank you" to her, but then perhaps the gifting of wealth cancels out the need for politeness and kindness in the reality TV entitlement culture of 2011.
Yet perhaps it's here that we can perceive in the pages of The Trench Part 1 the lone substantial evolution in the content of the superhero comic which has arrived in any of the titles of the New 52. For we've been being presented with decade after decade of superhero books which are concerned with little but other superhero comics, and now we have Aquaman, which is so incestuously self-concerned that it isn't even about the cape'n'chest-insignia brigade any more. Rather than being all shaky-wristed with love for the hyper-people, Aquaman # 1 is utterly preoccupied with the fans and their view of superheroes. It's nothing but a comic concerned with the opinions of the Rump, and with the lack of respect which the general public seems to have for the bloke who talks to squids and dolphins. And that's such a terrifyingly narcissistic idea that it really doesn't bear thinking about too much. To have to even consider that the theme of Aquaman # 1 is the lack of respect which fanboys in particular feel for Arthur Curry is to sense the strength draining out of a blogger's typing fingers. Is this really what the superhero comic has been reduced to? Wouldn't simply telling better stories about Aquaman make more sense than producing a list of reasons for why so many others have been so unforgivably wrong to regard the character as being uncool?
But when Mr Johns pushes all that silliness about why Aquaman's unloved and who's responsible for that to one side for just a single panel, the basic strength of the character shines through. This is the boy of two worlds who belongs in neither, who grew up with his abandoned father in an isolated lighthouse, and who made friends with the creatures of sea because there was no-one else for him to spend his time with, and nowhere else for him to go.
Like most of Mr Johns's lists these days, Aquaman # 1 is sprinkled with a few water-cooler moments, a small number of obviously vital messages for the reader to be sure not to miss, and twenty or so pages of piffle which comes to pieces in the reader's mind like over-saturated tissue when the story's thought about for anything more than a second or two. In that lone panel of the males of the Curry family eating together, there was the spectre of the best of Mr Johns's older work. But that single, silent, charming, touching panel can be processed in a second, and then, oh dear, Mr Johns starts speaking in that very deliberate and very obvious and almost entirely nonsensical manner while raising his voice once again ....
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The treatment of Aquaman doesn't appear unlikely when compared to the way celebrities of various types are treated in the real world. No amount of success, beauty, or wealth is a guarantee against some form of public ridicule.
ReplyDeleteWith Aquaman, we have a character who has most of his major adventures under the sea and away from mass media reports. As a result, it shouldn't be too surprising if the people of the DCU have built up some misconceptions about his abilities and assume his powers are useless on land.
Hello Hisham:- If I may, I'll approach your quite reasonable objection from a less than obvious starting point :) Firstly, I think the true problem lies not in the business of the misconceptions or contempt, but in the fact that Aquaman's bothered about either problem; I can't imagine any superhero of any character minding if policemen show a lack of knowledge of their physical powers and problems. I don't, for example, understand why Aquaman should be so irritated when a well-meaning officer offers him a drink. The story doesn't explain that. And so, in order for Aquaman's behaviour to make sense, the problems which worsen it have to be plausible. And I don't think that they are.
ReplyDeleteIf we move away from the misconceptions to the contempt and the scorn, I firstly don't believe that any Justice Leaguer would be faced with SUCH contempt. (Well, maybe some of the JLI, of course, but not Aquaman.) Aquaman the public's least favourite superhero? That would be including Booster Gold? No, it's another example of Mr Johns presenting a situation which looks fine at first, but which then seems - in my opinion - far too over-simplistic. I look around our world at various servants of the people and I can't think of one who's in any way to Aquaman and who is held in such contempt.
I don't deny your basic point. Could there be "some form of public ridicule"? Yes. But to the degree which the story states? No. That makes no sense at all. Nor would I say that there's no possibility of misconceptions. But those misconceptions are so numerous and basic that, again, it exceeds all understanding on the basis of the information we're given in Aquaman # 1.
Most worrying to me, in plot-terms, is that fact that Aquaman seems offended, or at least weary of, the police's lack of specific information, meaning that he looks like a self-regarding ass. Similarly, his response to the 'blogger' is quite insane; whyever would Aquaman care? If this was a bad moment, rather than a wistfully nostalgic one, then the text should've told us so. But it didn't, and so it presented us with the spectacle of Arthur throwing a hissy fit because a clearly incompetent boy-man - the art's not clear - poked fun at him.
I'll go back and see if I can tighten these points in the above. For I do agree with your basic points, but I don't think either misconception or mass contempt is justified in the text. It seems to me that GJ is so busy having a meta-conversation about Aquaman that he didn't bother to make the whole business make sense in story terms.
Or perhaps Aquaman really is, this time around, an insecure, egoistic hissy-fitter. That WOULD be a re-booting :)
Hello Hisham:- In response to your points, I thought I should say that I've tightened up my fifth paragraph and tipped my hat to you below it. I've not changed my argument, but I have tried to make the points in a clearer way in that paragraph. I appreciate you making the points you did :)
ReplyDeleteI guess, for my part, I don't have too much of a problem with Aquaman showing feet of clay. If he reacts with discomfort when he gets hassled by one of those pesky bloggers, that's a response I would share. His reactions may not be rational, but they are human (at least half-human).
ReplyDeleteAs for the meta-nature of the story, I don't mind that too much. Compared to the practices of some other writers, Geoff Johns is a master of subtlety. If it becomes a pattern in subsequent issues, then it could start to grate on me as well.
For this issue, I found the meta-commentary to be a fun way to reintroduce the character to some readers who know of Aquaman, but have never read an Aquaman comic.
Maybe I've seen so much meta-abuse in comics, that I just consider Johns a minor offender.
Colin, I am flattered by your acknowledgement and I do appreciate the spirit of dialogue that you encourage with your blog.
ReplyDeleteHello Hisham:- Thanks for popping back in. I was a touch concerned that I'd have sounded snotty, and that wasn't my intention. I never want folks to agree with me, although I do always hope for friendly debate :) And I just wanted to acknowledge your points and use them to think through my own position. That spirit of dialogue you mention, and so kindly too, is very important to me.
ReplyDeleteI think an Aquaman with, as you say, feet of clay would be a good idea. I think my problem here is that the character is shown to be the injured party here. Though the action shows one thing, the meaning of the script sentimentally expects us to side with Arthur. Now, I fully accept that Mr Johns can be a super-smart writer; in fact, I came in for real stick elsewhere when I wrote to that effect earlier this year. But here, the Great Lister shows no sign of irony in the text that I can see. We're supposed to side with AC and that's that. If we're not, then the subtlety of the piece has escaped me, which, I must say, is always possible :)
My feeling about all that meta is that it needs to be incorporated into the story rather than standing as the story. I know we differ on this, but the Aquaman-is-treated-badly scenes only make sense if you know that Aquaman has been a much-scorned superhero. If not, those problems I mention above come into play, or they do for me.
I will say, I am a real Aquaman fan. I have been since the mid-Sixties! (Oh, dear!) I'm even a member of F.O.A.M. over at the Aquaman Shrine. And as I say, I've written positively about GJ's ability and skill before. But here, I think it's a business of lists and technique obscuring a lack of story.
Yet the title is selling VERY well indeed. Well, what do I know?
But I can agree with you 100% about the fact that worse meta-crimes have occurred elsewhere. And may we never see their like again ...
This is the second time in a year DC has decided to pit one of their heroes against a nerd in a dining establishment -- the first being Clark Kent's baffling Portland encounter with someone who has to explain to him why Superman is so wonderful toward the end of GROUNDED.
ReplyDelete(And that's not even including the barely subtextual ongoing assault against fandom that is Superboy Prime.)
Is this really What They Want? Does the self-loathing of the comic book nerd really run so deep? Is Obnoxious Fan Insert Man going to become a regular character? Can we expect to see LEGION OF HIPSTERS #1 replace one of the failed 52 titles?
I can't wait to see how they respond to the complaints about the portrayal of women in the relaunch....
Hello J:- That's a really good point, both in terms of the specific example of Grounded and in the general sense of the anti-nerdism which is unbecoming in an industry built on little but. I didn't want to come across too outraged in the above, in case it seemed like I was annoyed for myself as a member of the nerd nation. Yet I was middle-aged before any such demographic hardened in the minds of marketers, and it's not for me that I think this insulting the audience is a bad idea. I fully accept that the customer isn't always right, but the Aquaman scene in the diner is specific in how it targets the stereotype of a large number of fans. My advice would be PRODUCE BETTER COMICS.
ReplyDeleteAnd how GJ can use Superboy Prime to criticise comicbook analism is simply so lacking in self-awareness as to beggar belief. I can only assume that S-P is a double-bluff which REALLY insults those who loathe fans and their love for the Big Two's universes.
No? No, me neither. And yet, it's a nicer picture than the one of S-P being a slap across the back of the head of a significant number of the Rump, who are supporting the Big Two with their dimes. As I said above; hand that feeds, meet creator's teeth.
"Is this really What They Want? Does the self-loathing of the comic book nerd really run so deep? Is Obnoxious Fan Insert Man going to become a regular character? Can we expect to see LEGION OF HIPSTERS #1 replace one of the failed 52 titles?"
I have a terrible idea that DC's new line is supposed to be something of that. I used to love it when older creators would create 'hip' characters and get it wrong; it led to some fascinating comics, a la Haney and so on. But DC today seems so obsessed with being cool to the Rump and the recently-departed from it that I fear for how parochial the appeal of the new books will be.
Yet, at the same time as presenting tough, macho heroes to the Rump - and some undressed female ones too - there's also the anti-fan material you mention.
"I can't wait to see how they respond to the complaints about the portrayal of women in the relaunch...."
Yep. But I'm still astonished that they commissioned and published that stuff in the first place. Part of me expected it, and wrote so on this blog. But I'm still amazed by the crassness of it all. A-m-a-z-e-d, I say ...
Mind you, LEGION OF HIPSTERS does sound like it could terrible enough to be hilarious. Bob Haney could've pulled it off. So could've Robert Kanigher. What once seemed archaic now seems wonderfully individual and refreshing ....
I find meta-commentary quite enjoyable when it is a supplement to the story being told, but in Aquaman #1 meta-commentary seems to be the only story being told. Would this issue even make sense if one had never seen The Superfriends cartoon or knew of the jokes derived from it? As you rightly note, Aquaman being aggrieved at the offer of a glass of water makes no sense. Unless, of course, you know that 1. Aquaman used to have a 60 minute time limit for being out of the water, 2. People made fun of him for this "weakness" in our world. Only if you know these two things can you conclude that Aquaman is aggrieved because 3. The cop is either intentionally making fun of him, or is concerned about Aquaman's health and so basically emasculating him. Of course, there are a hundred non-meta ways to impart the information that Aquaman can stay out of the water for longer than an hour.
ReplyDeleteHello Ralph:- "I find meta-commentary quite enjoyable when it is a supplement to the story being told ... "
ReplyDeleteYou're absolutely right. Even Alan Moore's Supreme could be wearisome in that respect, but in the best issues of that series, the stories themselves were splendid and the meta made it all the more satisfying.
You shame me with your analysis of the scene between Aquaman and the cop. I wish I'd written that in. Not wanting to seem as if I was being too cruel in an already critical piece, I cut out sections which I shouldn't have. I can see now that an explanation using the material you've referenced and used so well would've helped my cause tremendously. I can only thank you for adding it here, and I suspect I'll be needing to direct folks to your words in order to shore up my own case.
Seriously. You nailed that so well I think I'll add a reference to this in the above. (Hurries away and does so.) That's done, I've placed a 'go-see' to your comment in the above. And my thanks to you, RD :)
Let's say Johns is right. And he is! There are a lot of truly dreadful comic book fans; you need only visit a convention or read the comments on certain comic book new websites to get a sense of the creatures that are swimming through our waters.
ReplyDeleteBut the thing is: they have already lost. If we accept the Johnsian hypothesis, they've already failed at life, and have retreated from reality to the world of comics in search of some relief with fantasies about power and glory and friendship and honor, because there is so little of it in their own life.
But if that's true, why are we criticizing them? They've already lost. If comic book fans really are that pathetic, doesn't this start to become cruel? At this point, you've crashed their D&D game so you can steal their stuff and call them fat. There's a word for people like that.
(What would Superman write?)
So let's consider some of the meta-criticism here:
* Comic book fans are fat.
That's fair, if petty. There's not a lot of svelte comic book writers out there either, but whatevs.
* Comic book fans are not good with personal space.
Totally fair.
* Comic book fans are assholes who will insult you to your face.
I've never seen a comic book nerd insult someone to their face before, but I suppose it must happen. But this feels like a bad political cartoon -- rather than address whatever the guy's arguments are, let's just make him such an asshole we can't help but disagree with him.
But that's all ad hominem. What's this obnoxious fan *saying* that's so profoundly wrong?
* We don't like Aquaman.
How dare we not like Aquaman! How dare we not respond to this goofy commercial property that has aged poorly and not been written well in decades!
* We think Aquaman talks to fish.
How dare we make fun of Aquaman for talking to fish! Even though he did, and actually apparently still does! (This is addressed, ironically, with a Comic Book Guy-level pedantic clarification that would earn no end of ribbing if it were offered as a defense by one of my friends.)
* We ask impertinent questions.
How dare we question this immensely powerful king who wanders through restaurants with weapons! How dare we question his authority!
Curiosity, criticism, and humor: the cardinal sins of the comic book fan.
I'm guilty for sure, because I find all this hilarious.
As you know, I raised some of these points in the comments section of The Aquaman Shrine, choosing my words to be as diplomatic as possible in light of the venue and my considerable regard for its host. You've pretty well persuaded me I may have been too tactful, and didn't convey my objections with sufficient force.
ReplyDeleteBut I absolutely agree with you on the success of that one lovely flashback panel. (I considered saying days ago, but thought it would seem unkind, that this wordless panel is my single favorite bit of scripting by Johns. You know how I mean that, but we both know it wouldn't come across the way it was intended.)
Hello J:- Well, you've nailed it. It's that old process of scratching at the surface of the Great Lister's work over the past few years and finding that everything not only comes apart like sodden tissues, but that it contains some truly unfortunate ideas as well. I think it's safe to say nobody's editing GJ to any significant degree anymore, or if they are, they need editing.
ReplyDeleteWhich sounds daft, of course, because GJ's books sell so well. But I can't see that they'd sell any less if another pass was made at the list, and readers will be lost if things are this silly and dubious.
Considering how comics have targeted themselves at the likes of the fans, of the Rump, it strikes me as the height of hypocrisy to attack them in this shallow way. The Great Lister of all writers is in no place to start slapping down a group of the very folks who have floated his career.
"Curiosity, criticism, and humor: the cardinal sins of the comic book fan."
There are creators who are generous in acknowledging work that attempts to be fair, even if it isn't positive. I've found myself being lucky enough to swap a -very, and quite rightfully - few words with some creators who've recognised that criticism isn't impertinence by the very fact of its existence. And of course I've found myself thinking so well of that spirit that I've found it much harder to be negative about those men and women's work :) But there is a degree of blanket contempt which appears at times, and it strikes me as quite daft. I can well understand folks deciding that I'm not worth listening to. I fear that I'm not. But when, for example, the various debates about gender have exploded this year, and given the high quality of a great deal of the writing on that subject, there surely should've been a more reasoned response from the Big Two. Instead, some of what was said by senior figures was simply .... well, criticism obviously doesn't play a role in some folk's calculations. And while it shouldn't lead any debate to any degree where publisher's books are concerned, of course, the blogosphere is a huge research tool that's worth paying more attention to me.
There's a shut-up and swallow attitude that seems to be at work at times in certain places. Even if folks believe that, they shouldn't make it so obvious. It just alienates the very folks who're buying, and often helping to hype, their product.
Great comment, J. Thank you :)
I think this kind of meta-commentary is a way for creators to get the last word in on critics without engaging with them directly as they would have to do on the internet they seem to despise so much yet cannot function without (could anyone really see Superboy Prime's better story moments - particularly his reinvention as a commentary on fandom - happening without first being suggested by online fans?).
ReplyDeleteAquaman as a character and as a comic book does come across as defensive and petulant here, and as with Starfire I have to wonder why the character is not made to better resemble his more well-known cartoon counterpart beyond that "Brian Blessed as a married superhero and father who lives in the sea and shouts about how fabulous he is" would be too ebullient for the generally tepid atmosphere of faux-noir the relaunch has aimed for across the board. Batgirl being a comic about a traumatised sexual assault survivor is particularly baffling to me - though perhaps that is what people think of when they think of Batgirl in general, as I am quite out of touch on these things.
Hello Richard:- Oh, dear. I hadn't read your comment or the Aquaman Shrine reviews. I wanted to wait until I wrote this, and, to be honest, I didn't want to read acknowledgements of how out-of-step I am with Aquaman fans over the relaunch. I feel like I'm practicing apostasy, and I have always loved Aquaman. Indeed, the first long piece I wrote on this blog was about King Arthur C. As a result, I read few reviews and I thought I was covering material which hadn't been attended to quite as I tried to in the above.
ReplyDeleteBy which I mean, if I'd've read your comment, I doubt I'd have written this piece. You nailed several of the concerns I raised above and had them up 10 days before this. I too was touched with that single panel, and then tried to work out - for it always takes me awhile - why I was feeling excluded from the rest of Sturm und Drang. In truth, I felt rather pleased that I had actually found reasons for my response, because a vague dislike of a book always worries me. I hadn't read your words before writing the above, but if I had, the above would've been shorter. I hope that it doesn’t look as if I’ve absorbed your fine ideas and tried to pass them off as my own.
I know you weren't in any way elbowing me about any such point, but I thought it well worth putting the above into print. And kudos to you. I wouldn't have had the weights to print what you did in the comments at TAS, and I couldn't have done so with the respect and restraint you achieved. I certainly know what you mean about not wanting to say that the best thing about a script is a single panel, and a silent one at that. I reduced Frankenstein to two panels and Voodoo to three in the first two parts of this look at the 52. It was a way of discussing my concerns while accepting that at times even small mercies can also be considerable ones. And they can, can’t they? After a fashion :)
nb: It struck me later that anyone ambling away a stray moment might like to read Richard's comment on the Aquaman Shrine. It can be found at http://www.aquamanshrine.com/2011/10/aquaman-vol-8-1-nov-2011.html
Actually, what I was trying to avoid saying for fear of misinterpretation was something like "Geoff Johns' best scripting ever was in the one panel with no words" which would have sounded awfully harsh. Obviously a writer is still engaged in the act of writer even when the choice is to use no words -- it's not like a comics scripter says "let me just catch my breath for a moment while you draw anything you like there, Mr. Artist" -- and in this panel, silence was such a perfect choice! I wish that Johns would make that choice more often and give his words in general more breathing room, but again I verge on something best avoided...
ReplyDeleteAnd speaking of avoiding possible misunderstanding...oops! I'm glad you hadn't read those Shrine reviews when you wrote this, or else we'd have all been deprived of a particularly cogent bit of reviewing. Let me confirm, I really wasn't intending to elbow you in any way -- I just blithely assumed you'd already read that review page, though there was no reason for me to do so. Your restraint in not reading other reviews before writing your own is something I lack. In all honesty, it's pure laziness on my part: "Before I commit myself here, just how far out there are these opinions? If everyone else has already said this, maybe I can just go back to watching tv instead..."
Mr. Smith, let me offer a blanker statement for any future occasion: were it ever the case that I believed you had taken an idea of mine and used it in your writing, I would only be flattered. (And quite possibly envious at how much better use you would have made of the idea. Er, that sentence isn't quite right, but I'm sure the meaning is.)
Hello Brigonos: "I think this kind of meta-commentary is a way for creators to get the last word in on critics without engaging with them directly as they would have to do on the internet they seem to despise so much yet cannot function without"
ReplyDeleteIt's so true, Mr B! I feel on the one hand an almost complete sympathy with creators when they feel defensive about how the blogosphere deals with them. I still recall when I started blogging and discovered for myself something which I should've been aware for years and years, namely that Gail Simone is a fine writer. And yet the rain of rudeness, indeed of nasty-minded bigotry, while was directed at her was often absolutely corrosive. She's dealt with things in the best way, I believe; she's kept up a dialogue with folks, communicated with the braoder community, participated where it's appropriate without ever losing sight of her ideals and values. But as you say, there's alot of folks who target the rump and then mock them too. (cough -Superboy-Prime - cough.) It's not on.
You make a GREAT point about Aquaman. But then, is there ANYONE in the New 52 who is an optimistic, good-humoured individual? Is there anyone who Brian Blessed could voice? Perhaps there is, but I can't think of them now. Perhaps Nightwing ... But I'm struggling after that ...
Hello Richard:- Thank you for your kind words. My concern to show respect to your original ideas, and to not in any way seem to have called upon them, comes from my matching regard for your work.
ReplyDeleteYour point about Mr Johns and what you call "general breathing room" is - of course - a good one. And it throws me back to thinking again about what I believe is - I'll not assume anyone shares this belief! - GJ's bullet-point approach to scripting. Whether that's so or not, there's so often a sense of his plots being directed to the next issue, the next arc, the next crossover. Yet it often seems as if he's always traveling and never arriving. The heart and soul of Aquaman # 1 is indeed that one panel which so tellingly caught both our attention. If I'd've had the privilege of being the editor of this issue - and I realise you're the editor here and not me! - I'd've suggested dropping the sulking, cutting a page or two of the seven page fight-fest and focusing instead on the emotions of the piece beyond resentment, loss and alienation. I’m glad that Aquaman has been restored to the status of a powerhouse; there’s a lot of the Golden Age Aquaman, and indeed Superman, of this take. But I’m far more concerned to care about the man than I am to cheer his bad-assery.
My Johns can do those scenes so well. Even in Flashpoint, which I had real problems with, Thomas Wayne's love for his son was the one thing which really moved me. (Not a popular idea in some quarters, I know, but there we go.)
Hii Colin: Well, here we have another review in which I agree with the points you made, but still enjoyed the issue. I hope the meta storytelling ends in this issue, of course. But as someone who has never bought an Aquaman comic before now, I thought Johns did a good job of introducing the character. Nothing spectacular here, but it got the job done.
ReplyDeleteEric
As always, this is an excellent analysis.
ReplyDeleteAquaman #1 made me sad. I like Mr. Johns when he bothers to write instead of having star artists illustrate his checklists. He has risen to a position where he has more influence over a shared superhero universe than anyone since Stan Lee. His work on Green Lantern was adapted into a major motion picture.
Moreover, Aquaman really is a terrific character who deserves a moment in the spotlight. Unlike his comrades on the SUPER-FRIENDS, Aquaman was only adapted into animation. That gave him the stigma of the juvenile that Batman, Robin, Superman and Wonder Woman have avoided more successfully. The 52 relaunch has been an unprecedented marketing victory and gave Aquaman a unique platform to be re-branded.
And yet, what does Mr. Johns do with a moment that uniquely critical both for his career and that of the fictional character that he is stewarding? He settles scores with straw-man comic bloggers. It is a moment of astonishing pettiness.
Hello Eric:- "Well, here we have another review in which I agree with the points you made, but still enjoyed the issue."
ReplyDeleteI think that's great, Eric! That really made me smile. And I do know exactly what you mean. I've never been able to stick anything but the last series of Enterprise, for example, but I caught an episode this afternoon and, for all its flaws, I did enjoy it. I think the issue with the Great Lister's work is that his work always - with some exceptions like the last issues of his final Flash runs - contains material that entertains. It's just that it should be so much better. What we're getting seems to have needed at least a few more drafts. And so, I enjoyed some of the first scene of AQM beating up landlubbers, but 7 pages? And with that almost camp, neither funny nor logical dialogue?
He did introduce his take on the character, no doubt about it. I thought he was a right old sulker, mind you, but what the Great Lister has done is turn AQM into a powerhouse again. That should pay off commercially, although there are those of us who had no problem with him talking to animals. Well, at least I didn't :)
Colin-
ReplyDeleteInteresting and, as always, well thought-out take on Aquaman #1.
I hope that there is no feeling over at the Shrine that dissenting opinions cannot be voiced, either on this topic or any other (let me be clear: I'm not suggesting you, or RAB, have suggested this, but it was on my mind as I read your back and forth). I want thoughtful fans such as yourself and RAB to feel free to comment on the Shrine, no matter how contrary your opinion might be.
As the main force behind the Shrine, I find myself of two minds about how to review any given new Aquaman comic. As a grown man (ha!), I've come to the realization that there is simply isn't going to be a mainstream superhero comic book that's going to blow me away like they did when I was fifteen; and that's the way it oughta be, I guess--one of the things that helped me lose interest in mainstream comics at all was that they were so narrowly-focused at people like me. Comics as an art form need to grow and continually appealing only to overgrown fanboys (raises hand in shame) and for the most part DC and Marvel don't seem interested in doing anything else.
So I was probably a little more negative about #1 than I let on, and that's because I'm trying to balance being honest but also not wanting to throw a bucket of cold water on the AMAZING level of enthusiasm the new Aquaman book has generated.
Maybe that's arrogant of me, to think that I could do that at all, but I feel like since the Shrine is meant to celebrate the character (even when goofing on him), I try and "tilt the mirror up" as it were. But that can of course sometimes cross the line into propaganda, which I want to avoid, of course.
Personally, I'm trying to take the macro view of this: I want Aquaman as a character to survive. And in the cold hard world of properties and corporations, the Aquaman I'd like to see (say, written by J.M. DeMatteis and drawn by Evan Shaner) isn't going to happen.
So having the book written by DC's marquee talent will, ultimately, do the thing I want more than anything else: make the character viable in the eyes of his corporate overlords, and more than anything else that's what I'm happy about.
Sorry for the rambling!
To keep it pithy: there's little more callous or off-putting than the rich celebrity whining "woe is me." Because the only thing worse than having people rudely interrupt your meal when you're carrying a trident is... being the waitress.
ReplyDeleteHello Dean:- It is worth wondering whether a creator beyond Stan has ever had this much influence over one of the Big Two. And although we can't tell with any measure of surity, it does seem that the Great Lister has that considerable measure of power. (Certainly Jim Shooter's blog pieces about having to change long-accepted plot points to fit in with GJ's new ideas would tend to back that up.) Yet with the rise in his power has come a decline in the quality of his work. It's tempting to presume a correlation between the two, but whatever the reason, I'd argue we've seen a real fall in the quality of his scripts.
ReplyDelete"And yet, what does Mr. Johns do with a moment that uniquely critical both for his career and that of the fictional character that he is stewarding? He settles scores with straw-man comic bloggers. It is a moment of astonishing pettiness."
It does seem to be. Or it's an attempt to bury the strangest sense of fond humour within a stiff and melodramatic plot, which leaves the whole business as a failure.
I retain my belief in comics being a form of - oh, dear, he's going to say it - literature, and that goes for superhero books too. That doesn't mean War And Peace, if I may, but it does mean that comics have to be well-written rather than clusters of plot-points and money-shots. I really enjoyed reading and writing about Al Ewing's Steampulp novel a few weeks ago. It was in no way pretentious, it respected its pulp context, but it was well written.
It wasn't, I would add, a list.
Hello Rob!:- When I referred to feeling as if I were an apostate, I didn't mean to imply that the Aquaman Shrine was an intemperate and fundamentalist church! No, I meant that word in the context of my own feelings. I've mentioned my much-treasured membership of FOAM twice in the comments this week, for example, and you know how much I like the character. Indeed, such is my love for Arthur that I wrote the world's least commercially appealing blog entry EVER back in April last on Nick Cardy's cover to Aquaman # 45. I knew that what I was going to write was beyond my capacity to make interesting, but I so love the cover and the character, and getting to talk about a host of old Aquaman comics was SUCH fun for me, at least.
ReplyDeleteI can't speak for Richard, but I strongly suspect that he was expressing a respect for the Shrine rather than any negative judgment of how the community works there. My take, whether I'm right about his motives or not, is a different one to a degree. Richard enjoyed the issue more than I did, but I really didn't. To crash the Shrine and declare that in the midst of such enthusiasm would just seem like bad manners.
Anyway, I feel like a traitor. I really do. I don't think folks over at AS would try to cut me down. In fact, I very much know they wouldn't. But Aquaman is a passion of yours and theirs and you've mostly all enjoyed this reboot of the character. I just don't want to turn up at a party and shout !pah!!
I agree entirely with you about the need to attend to audiences beyond the Rump of the audience for superhero books. And I also agree that it's important for the character, and the books, to survive. I think we're all on the same side here. I genuingly believe that. The Aquaman Shrine has done a fantastic job - there's no BS to this at all - in keeping AC's profile up and in pushing for the character's worth and the need for greater recognition. In fact, I can't think of any single-franchise blog on the net that can come CLOSE to what you've achieved. (Of course, what am I saying? You know this.) In that context, it SURELY is your task to keep the Shrine functioning as a generally-positive nexus for Aqua-fans. My take is that although my blog is a tiny one and with no influence at all - quite rightfully - I at least to try to contribute by discussing matters such as structure and ethicacy and so on. Yet I'll also "tilt the mirror up!", as you say, at times myself, while the Shrine has often expressed disappointment at a whole raft of issues to do with the Sea King's treatment, as you say in your review of the new # 1. I'd like to think - and I hope it's OK to say this - that our "mission statements" - urgh! - overlap. But I still feel that respect for the Shriners during this period of unprecendented success for AQM demands that I don't impose my dissenting voice.
But that you'd welcome such a thing says a great deal about the Shrine and your good self too.
"written by J.M. DeMatteis and drawn by Evan Shaner"
Oh, please. I'd love a collaboration between Al Ewing and Ty Templeton myself! If I win the Euro-Lottery, I shall make both so :)
Please don't think you're rambling, Rob. For one thing, you're not. For another, I owe the Shrine and your good self a great deal. It was the links which you gave this blog when it started which helped TooBusyThinking find an audience. I remain in your debt.
Finally, thank you for making me feel like less of a heretic. I do have problems with GJ's script for AQM #1, but I intend to follow the book, and I'll never feel anything but pleased should the Sea-King continue his rise. Perhaps we'll get your Aquaman-Through-The-Ages book then!
Hello Julian:- "Because the only thing worse than having people rudely interrupt your meal when you're carrying a trident is... being the waitress."
ReplyDeleteHe's SO rude, isn't he? The Arthur Curry I love isn't anyone who'd do such a thing. I don't think the Great Lister understood what he was saying here, because it's obvious that we're supposed to love Aquaman and feel hard-done by for him. GJ wanted us to feel that AQM was hard-done and justified in his strop, and it seems that the giving out of random gold coin was intended to show how deeply caring AQM is.
But the story says something else, doesn't it? What IS the waitress to do with those coins? Share them with her colleagues? Run away? Does the company have any legal right to the money, since there was no other payment for the meal given over?
Pull at one of the Great Lister's recent scripts and it just falls apart ...
This is probably completely out of left field, but remember that period in the late sixties, early seventies, when Bob Dylan did his damnedest to alienate every single one of his fans? Releasing a country album, recording songs with names like "Wiggle Wiggle," etc. For him, it apparently was a way to rebel against his externally-appointed role as a Voice Of A Generation and exert his autonomy.
ReplyDeleteIs that what DC is trying to do here? Just make a statement that says "we don't give a hoot about what you think"? Well, the reason it ultimately turned out well for Dylan was, well, a) he went back to do some high-quality work (and even Nashville Skyline has good elements), b) he had a huge enough fanbase that a portion of people would buy even his weirdest and worst, c) when he went back to his more recognizable/accepted style, he got great reviews and sales off of a "return to form."
I feel like I could write paragraphs more about similarities and differences between DC comics and Bob Dylan, but I should not further subject anyone else.
The only good portrayal of hipsters I can recall is in Benito Cereno's Tick comic that came out in 2009.
The Tick and Arthur enter a bookstore looking for the Tick and Arthur comic (already meta, of course), and are informed by a disheveled, unshaven dude with plugs in his ears "Man, we don't carry that kind of kid's stuff here, this place is a shrine to art and terrible things we pretend to like because we think it's funny."
The next panel introduces a Hipster Villain, Scarf Ace, who waits to attack Tick & Arthur until she "finishes the row".
Why does this work better than Aquaman? (to be fair, I haven't actually read the book besides scans I've seen here and at Comics Alliance.)
Well, for one, part of the core concept is that The Tick is insane or an idiot, Arthur's unconfident and ineffectual, and together they bumble through solving crimes in a way that tends to earn them lots of enemies, both villains, heroes, and civilians. So there's an in-universe explanation for the hate. As someone else mentioned above, this concept would totally have worked with Booster Gold, who is really the perfect metaphor for the balance of heroics with the desire of publicity.
Second, the Tick satirizes comics themselves in addition to an external target. A reminder that comics work so hard to be taken seriously but are still considered only for kids by the public.
Third, the target is actually specified and described. Someone (maybe you?) said you couldn't tell what age Aquaman's critic was- and in none of the scans have I seen him say anything at all about his own identity. The questions coming out of his mouth betray enough knowledge of Aquaman that it seems like he's a bit of an obsessed anti-fan, but the visuals portray him as more thin and fashionable and hipstery than I think the average fanboy is (at least viewed by DC). It would be hilarious to take this guy a step further and make him a guy whose role is to follow Aquaman around* and quote embarrassing trivia from his past at awkward moments. (He's trying to get romantic with Mera, and then this dude pops up and says "His best friend is an octopus!"), but that would again require making him a specific person rather than nebulous haters.**
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ReplyDeleteThe Tick, on the other hand, pins them down as hipsters. Critiques the current knitting trend gently. Has the Tick call the unhelpful clerk "Guy with fake glasses." Points out the ridiculous nature of liking things ironically. Even though that's a trope at least as old as the Simpsons' "Were you being sarcastic?" "I don't even know any more", it still underlines the kinds of people they are. Comic book nerds don't like things because they suck, they like things because it's what they grew up with. Comic book fans are established as NOT the target here.
The Scarf Ace is also given a concrete reason to hate our protagonists. An unobtrusive piece of exposition establishes that they put her in jail. There. All taken care of. Now it's not that all superheroes and hipsters are natural enemies, but simply that villains hate heroes, as it should be.
There's no specificity to Aquaman's antagonist. Even as cliche as it is, wouldn't it be better if this guy was somehow an unintentional victim of Aqua's heroics? Or he was a fan who he'd snubbed. Something to give him a reason to hate someone with no in-story reasons to hate. Fuck it, even make him a cartoonist who pokes fun at Aquaman in his popular cartoon "Family Man."
Then there's the hero's reaction. Tick's a hothead whose mood changes in a second - he can alternatively take offense at anything or let horrible insults pass over his head depending on the situation, so it's reasonable he'd be somewhat aggressive in tone in response to this guy.
Aquaman's two general overall attitudes have seemed to be a) sunny and optimistic, even in the face of adversity, and b) angsty and despairing, and in mourning over wife/kid/kingdom/hand. The first option is nowhere in evidence, and the second one really only works in reverse- like in Veitch's The Water Carrier, where Aqua regains his self-confidence through getting back to helping people and seeing how much people appreciate him as a helpful guy. Snippy and defensive Aquaman seems to be a new character, even less appealing than emo King Arthur.
Imagine how the Aquaman in Palmiotti & Connor's Supergirl in Wednesday Comics would react to this socially-awkward hipster asking if he talks to fish- there'd be a beat of silence, then his clam phone would ring and next thing you know, he'd be describing how to defibrillate a blue whale or sending a pack of dolphins to rescue a ship or something, and the hipster guy would realize what a dick he's being, without Aquaman having to look like a jerk.
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ReplyDeleteThis entire issue could work (from what I've seen online) if only Aquaman had maintained his cool, sunny, positive demeanor in response to the rude guy. It's much better to graciously hear out the hipster, then smile and show that he's not gonna let one guy get him down, because that's not what he's about. As a friend of mine said, "those who loudly declare that they don't care what anyone thinks tend to be those who care the most."
* see Faith Eric Hicks' Superhero Girl (http://superherogirladventures.blogspot.com/2010/12/superhero-girl-017.html?m=0) for a great example of that kind of character. Read Superhero Girl anyway. It's great.
*It could even maybe make sense if this guy were a Atlantean spy - the only population long established as having an irrational hatred of him. When Atlanteans are portrayed this way, it's generally due to anti-surface dweller bigotry.
This bigotry is rightfully portrayed as bad, and the Atlantean society is established as Flawed in that respect. If the common nuDCU civilian attitude towards Aquaman is negative for no established reason, seeing as Aqua's the protagonist, either OUR society is flawed in a nebulous way with only one concrete example (we hate Aquaman), or Aquaman unconsciously repels people.
This second option moves us toward newspapers like Funky Winkerbean, Mary Worth, or For Better Or For Worse where the protagonist is clearly a huge asshole and EVERYBODY but the author can tell. Or Kingdom Come.
If it's intentional, then they should go for broke and get Dan Clowes to write Aquaman. I'd read it.
Hello Colin,
ReplyDeleteI sometimes miss the pre-Internet times when the writers did their work, would only talk to the editors at a three-martini-lunch and never met their readers.
The Net changed all that. Now the writers are not only expected to invite their readers into their parlour, the current generation of our writers are really hot for this. Its like the Paparazzi thing, can´t live with them, can´t live without them.
In my opinion any professional writer who uses his work to talk back to his fans is pathetic. I don´t care if GJ thinks Aquaman is the greatest hero on earth who doesn´t get enough respect. Or that Hal Jordan isn´t an insufferable dick.
But to get back to the readers who have another opinion as immature as a lot of fans who troll the comics board. Not to mention the fact that in this case the customer has to pay 2.99 for that non-story.
Of course I never read Aquaman because I never could stand the character, but I was under the impression that in the long Peter David run he was as grim´n´gritty as they come. He even had a hook for a hand. (Just missing was the pirate shirt). The only incarnation I remember being ridiculous was the cartoon 30 years ago. Maybe GJ should get over this problem.
Hi, Colin,
ReplyDeleteAquaman #1 was NOT one of "The New 52" that I was planning on getting. I used to love Aquaman - I have the last year or so of the 1970s series and I collected Aquaman in the 1990s - but the Peter David treatment turned me off the character a long time ago.
Any residual fondness I have for Aquaman that might have enticed me to pick up the new #1 was wiped away when I saw it at one of the two "comic book stores" in my area, less than a week old, already marked up to $9.99. (This is part of the "ordeal" I mentioned in an earlier post.)
I'm not the least bit interested in "Aquaman loses battle with rude, nerdy blogger."
Blecch!
It's a shame. The art's great.
- Hoosier X
Hello Historyman!!!:- I love the idea of AQM and Mera's lovemaking being interupted with a cry of "His best mate's a squid!" In fact, there's something very early - if not very very early! - Ambusg Bug about the whole idea. And as you say, it would work far better than a sad little spat between Sea King and fan-boy.
ReplyDeleteHey! I suggested the scene would work with Booster Gold! But a Booster, Aquaman, Ambush Bug and The Tick team-up all coping with a mass of determined and judgmental fans: I'd buy that.
And I mean that seriously. I'd rather laugh with a comicbook than sigh along with its ill-judged melodrama.
"There's no specificity to Aquaman's antagonist. Even as cliche as it is, wouldn't it be better if this guy was somehow an unintentional victim of Aqua's heroics? Or he was a fan who he'd snubbed. Something to give him a reason to hate someone with no in-story reasons to hate. Fuck it, even make him a cartoonist who pokes fun at Aquaman in his popular cartoon "Family Man."
You're right. The whole story is based around the concept that just about everyone lacks respect for AQM to a greater or lesser degree. But since it's a blanket judgment that's being passed, there's nothing at stake, nothing personal and touching or even amusing. It's certainly impossible to care what the lad/man thinks or feels. He's a stereotype built for comedy placed into a melodrama.
"like in Veitch's The Water Carrier, where Aqua regains his self-confidence through getting back to helping people and seeing how much people appreciate him as a helpful guy. Snippy and defensive Aquaman seems to be a new character, even less appealing than emo King Arthur."
Indeed. I'd've preferred it if AQM had had some strength enough to at least tolerate the fan, if not establish a relationship with them. You know, after the fashion of a grown adult, if not a hero.
"Imagine how the Aquaman in Palmiotti & Connor's Supergirl in Wednesday Comics would react to this socially-awkward hipster asking if he talks to fish- there'd be a beat of silence, then his clam phone would ring and next thing you know, he'd be describing how to defibrillate a blue whale or sending a pack of dolphins to rescue a ship or something, and the hipster guy would realize what a dick he's being, without Aquaman having to look like a jerk."
Brilliant point. Or what of the Brave and The Bold's Aquaman, who'd take the fan with him on a fantastic adventure and turn him into Aqua-Fan number 1.
"If it's intentional, then they should go for broke and get Dan Clowes to write Aquaman. I'd read it."
Your comment shames my piece, Historyman. It's alive with common sense, comic-book-knowledge and good humour.
And I'd buy a Dan Clowes Aquaman too. I'd buy a Geoff Johns AQM too, if only he'd stop focusing on this silliness and write the stories he's well capable of doing.
Hello Andy:- "In my opinion any professional writer who uses his work to talk back to his fans is pathetic."
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Unless the debate is respectful and good humoured, it comes across as petty and rude.
"I don´t care if GJ thinks Aquaman is the greatest hero on earth who doesn´t get enough respect. Or that Hal Jordan isn´t an insufferable dick. But to get back to the readers who have another opinion as immature as a lot of fans who troll the comics board. Not to mention the fact that in this case the customer has to pay 2.99 for that non-story."
Absolutely. I can't positively say that the Great Lister was aiming his ire at fans here, although it seems that way. Perhaps he just didn't think through what he was doing, but I doubt it; the relish and precision by which speccie and fattie are shown make it hard to come to any more charitable a conclusion. A such, the Great List obviously looked like this;
1. Show Aquaman is incredibly cool while beating up criminals
2. Show the police don't really understand him and how they upset him
3. Show how unpopular he is and how rude fans won't let you eat your fish supper
4. Show he has a girlfriend or wife or whatever she is
5. Have monsters eat fishermen
"The only incarnation I remember being ridiculous was the cartoon 30 years ago. Maybe GJ should get over this problem."
Yes, it's a good point. Folks still refer to the camp Batman when they discuss Mr B. Wayne in the mass media. But no-one cares anymore. They've got over it, as you recommend AQM creators should. The solution to the problem is better stories over a protracted period of time. Everything else is hot air.
Hello Hoosier X:- "Any residual fondness I have for Aquaman that might have enticed me to pick up the new #1 was wiped away when I saw it at one of the two "comic book stores" in my area, less than a week old, already marked up to $9.99. (This is part of the "ordeal" I mentioned in an earlier post.)"
ReplyDeleteOh, for heaven's sake. Some comic shop owners deserve to go out of business. Don't they understand that longterm success relies on establishing a mutual respect with their custimers? Sometimes it seems that the whole industry is full of fools. Well, it does for a minute, until I recall all those folks who're good eggs. For example, I use a British mail order called A Place In Space. They offer free postage, NEVER mark up their trade and do their best to get everyone a copy of what they want. It's good to recall that there's alot of folks who aren't sharks.
Fat lot of good that does you, of course. I'm sorry that you can't even get hold of a book with a + 100 000 print run.
"I'm not the least bit interested in "Aquaman loses battle with rude, nerdy blogger."
No, it's not appealing. The fight scene at the beginning of the book is good fun, or rather, it would be, if it didn't take up seven pages rather than three or four.
"It's a shame. The art's great."
It is. And the comic only needed one more editorial conference and a few more drafts to be splendid too. It's all a shame, I fear.
And I really do LOVE Aquaman ...
Colin-
ReplyDeleteOkay, that was you with the Booster suggestion, I thought so. Yeah, all of those guys would work with this kind of plot because they're COMEDY characters, and that kind of antagonist is a COMEDY antagonist. I think out of those three, Booster is the best at crossing back between comedy and drama (though to be fair I've only really read Ambush Bug in 52, what else has he been in you'd recommend him?). I really do think Booster's got one of the most compelling narratives, very Spidermanesque, in going from selfishness to personal responsibility, which allows him to suffer all sorts of indignities along the way.
Aquaman, as written, fits in as well as Orlando Bloom in a Pirates of the Carribean movie, or that one Marx Brother who did the romantic stuff and wasn't funny.
Everybody's been talking about it so much I thought it would be pointless for me to also mention it, but YES! Brave and the Bold Aquaman would be so! perfect!* Were he thrown into this plot, he'd be completely unable to comprehend that somebody doesn't like him, and just, as you said, take him along with him on adventures until he became the new Aquaboy! Okay, if that's what happens in this story, that would be amazing.
Some people can blend comedy and drama well- I just read a few JLI books, and even though I'm not sure the humor has aged perfectly, they're still fun, irreverent stuff. Someone totally could write this scene into that book, but with Guy Gardiner in Aquaman's place.
Geoff Johns. If Guy Gardiner's the best person you could slot into Aquaman's place in this story, I don't think he's coming off right.
Webcomic artist David Willis (Shortpacked!, Dumbing of Age) does comedy/drama blending better than anyone else I've read recently. One overarching theme in Shortpacked! is a predominantly gag-based "zany" character realizing the qualities that make her fun and spontaneous also make it impossible for anyone to maintain a serious relationship with her. Crazy things have serious consequences, and it's due to an incredible amount of storytelling skill that the creator manages to pull it off in a convincing way.
And Dan Clowes could write a complete jerk Aquaman who still has more dignity than this guy. And I just realized, what else does this book have in common with Kingdom Come? It lets its metafictional concerns completely dictate a plot that makes no sense without them.
Thank you for the kind words! I would have had nothing to write about if not for your great essays. I feel weird having not read some of the things I'm talking about. I'm imagining reading this trade in four years when the library finally has it, and hunting down this entry and posting "I WAS WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING! PETULANT DICK AQUAMAN WAS A BRILLIANT CHOICE!!!"
* Cartoons are often able to provide a great distillation of the best aspects of a character in a way that is actually more appealing than the current comics incarnation. Brave and the Bold's Aquaman is the most fun character on the show, Teen Titan's Starfire is not someone you'd be embarrassed to say you're a fan of (though I still have unfortunately never watched the show), The Batman's Penguin is more menacing than the comic version's been for years, Lois & Clark's eponymous couple are better drawn than most comics featuring them (not a cartoon, but you know what I mean)
I have a strong suspicion that this comic really wasn't written for me. Not because I care about the commentary made about comic-fandom or take it personally, as I've felt estranged from it even when I'd purchase nearly 50 superhero titles a month, but this wasn't for me because I find it so amusing and can't help but laugh at Aquaman's utter frustration at dealing with both the ignorance and contempt from the public. This comic to me is a comedy although it was clearly written to be a very serious and personal defense of how awesome Aquaman really is. Mr. Johns is doing himself no favors by making this comic if his goal is to redeem Aquaman in the public's eyes, because it's just reaffirming the point in my case.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I must link to Kate Beaton's site once again, as she has a fabulous take on Aquaman that would make him simultaneously quite awesome AND hilarious:
http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=260
"As new as I am to learning about superheroes, everything that is well known to everyone else - like the fact that Aquaman is regarded as kind of lame - is new and hilarious. I read a bit about Aquaman growing a beard and having a harpoon hand and living in a cave and talking to spirits or something, and thought, how can anyone not like this guy? This crazy dude living under the water. Anyway that is the only version of Aquaman that I am really into."
I'd most definitely buy a comic about a belligerent hermit Aquaman. Extra points to it if he's also a shaman and drinks malt liquor.
Hi Colin,
ReplyDeleteAlthough I haven't posted a comment in a while, I've been reading your posts about the New 52 & the latest Ultimates series. I tried to write a response or two, but got as far as, "yes, exactly!" before realizing I had little else to say.
This Aquaman comic, though... yikes. It's a very immature comic. I think Geoff Johns needs to stay away from fandom, get over the fact that people don't always like his work, and figure out what made his best comics so successful.
Remember Grant Morrison & Howard Porter's JLA #4? In one page, they had a villain taunt Aquaman about his powers followed by Aquaman shutting down the villain's brain. It was a bit meta without being forced, and gave Aquaman a "f*** yeah" moment. No fan-baiting, no petulance. Aquaman beats an alien with a greater power set through smart application of his own abilities and the right touch of attitude.
I think a big problem is the Rump and its love of grim & gritty. Sure, the critics and more discerning fans celebrated Blue Beetle, Incredible Hercules, Agents of Atlas, Secret Six, and other marginal sellers that contained some humor and joy (even as they dealt with their share of blood and misery), but the best-sellers were usually cheerless crossovers and darker reboots. The taste of the Rump doesn't match my tastes, so maybe some are now getting the comics they deserve? I hate to say it, but after reading some of the more reactionary misogynistic garbage spewed at any who questioned the portrayal of women in the new DC comics, my opinion of the Rump has gone down.
But, at least we have some sensible, sane voices calling for the Big 2 to do better. I hope some of the problems of the DC #1s are fixed as the comics move on, and that Marvel & others learn from DC's mistakes and success. As always, I hope the day finds you well and that the next comics you read have a bit of a sunnier outlook.
- Mike Loughlin
Ok, I just figured out a more succinct way to say what the problem was with the issue- that it completely missed the point. When somebody comes up to Aquaman and asks if he talks to fish, the correct response is not "No, shut up. That's dumb." It's "Fuck yes I talk to fish! Talking to fish is awesome!" and then some kind of disaster happens that his talking-to-fish ability is the only thing that can fix, and he's applauded as a hero. That's how to do that right.
ReplyDeleteBecause I just realized- that guy doesn't represent comics fans, or hipsters, or people with poor social skills: he represents Johns's shame at liking someone he thinks others consider lame.
Overused but still appropriate CS Lewis quote: "When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
Obligatory Relevant Let's Be Friends Again link: http://www.letsbefriendsagain.com/2011/10/05/aquard/
Hello, Colin:
ReplyDeleteThe ordeal continues. I went to the same "comic book store" today. They were sold out of every "New 52" #2 that I'm interested in that came out this week. (That would be Detective and Action, and also Batgirl (even though I don't have #1 yet) and O.M.A.C. (I've decided to give it a try ... if I can get hold of a copy of any of the first few issues without paying out the nose).
The girl working there was much more helpful than the young man behind the counter last week. She told me the popular "New 52" titles are available at cover price THE DAY THEY COME IN! Then the price goes up. And she gave me the approximate location of a new comic book store in town that's not that far away.
I did get Huntress #1, which has really nice art, and the fraction of a story contained therein was not so badly done.
I also got a few back issues, including Detective #852, about a Bruce Wayne look-a-like who is, I think, named Hush and he pretends to be Wayne and he kills a lady for her yacht and he goes to Australia and then he goes to Vietnam and then Catwoman gets him and then ...
I don't know. They didn't have the next issue. But I'm definitely intrigued.
I hope the new comic book store is a more pleasant experience. If not, I have been thinking about looking into a service. But I so like the idea of a local comic book shop. However, if I can't find one that doesn't suck, I'll go with the subscription service.
I love Aquaman as well. I think I'm going to get out the last year or so of the 1970s series and flip throught them tonight.
Have fun!
- Hoosier X
Hello Historyman:- My favourite Ambush Man tales were right at the beginning of his career, actually, with the character breaking the fourth wall while still inhabiting a recognisable DCU. There's 500 pages of Ambush Bug in the 2009 Showcase collection, and it's all good fun. And some of it was quite deliberately cutting where the DC of the time was concerned.
ReplyDelete"Brave and the Bold Aquaman would be so! perfect!* Were he thrown into this plot, he'd be completely unable to comprehend that somebody doesn't like him, and just, as you said, take him along with him on adventures until he became the new Aquaboy! Okay, if that's what happens in this story, that would be amazing."
I long to read this story, except I'd change the ending. I'd have Aquaman do remarkable things in a very arrogant way, and yet have the fan change not a whit. Of course, B&B wouldn't notice and would STILL make him Surface-Aquaboy.
I know not of David Willis; I'll certainly add that to the list.
The very idea of parallels with Kingdom Come hadn't occured to me, and yet you're absolutely right. Both have a surface of brusied heroism and yet underneath that there's all this self-pity and self-righteousness. Good call.
"I'm imagining reading this trade in four years when the library finally has it, and hunting down this entry and posting "I WAS WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING! PETULANT DICK AQUAMAN WAS A BRILLIANT CHOICE!!!"
I hope anyone who chances on this blog immediately assumes I'm full of it and hunts down the comics I've criticised with absolute confidence that they're nothing as I've described them. True story.
As for the DC cartoons, I agree entirely with you. It's hard to think of one which doesn't carry with it at least one genuingly moving and/or amusing moment. That's more that most modern-era comics can claim to have done.
Aquaman's petulance in the restaurant due to his being given grief over his unpopularity reminds me of the "Astro City" arc with Steeljack, where the least-popular member of that world's version of the JLA/Avengers becomes a secret super-villain just so he could re-emerge as a hero to stop the "new villain."
ReplyDeleteThe former hero was embarrassed that he cared so much what people thought of him, and he knew it was petty, but it drove him to the dark side of the street regardless.
Even the villain in that story knew that a superhero caring about his PR and popularity was irresponsible and dangerous.
Hm.
Colin-
ReplyDeleteI was referencing the webcomic recommendation I sent you a few months ago where I recommended you start at the beginning of an archive of daily comics that started in 1997. So I very much understand if you had not gotten around to it. I'll amend my recommendation to just reading all of Shortpacked! (www.Shortpacked.com), which has only been around for 7 or 8 years. And unlike paper comics, it's free!
He also did a strip about the Starfire situation that many seemed to identify with: http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/04-remedial-adulthood/math/
Hi Joe:-“I have a strong suspicion that this comic really wasn't written for me …because I find it so amusing and can't help but laugh at Aquaman's utter frustration at dealing with both the ignorance and contempt from the public. This comic to me is a comedy although it was clearly written to be a very serious and personal defense of how awesome Aquaman really is. “
ReplyDeleteIt is, isn’t it? It’s a comedy. It’s a comedy about a pathetic superhero, and yet somebody’s forgotten to replace the self-pity with jokes.
“Mr. Johns is doing himself no favors by making this comic if his goal is to redeem Aquaman in the public's eyes, because it's just reaffirming the point in my case.”
Fine point. A pathetic man upset at being called pathetic has NOT established himself as an admirable protagonist.
”Also, I must link to Kate Beaton's site once again, as she has a fabulous take on Aquaman that would make him simultaneously quite awesome AND hilarious:
http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=260”
Thank you. I shall chase it down. I referred your last link in Sunday last’s miscellany.
"As new as I am to learning about superheroes, everything that is well known to everyone else - like the fact that Aquaman is regarded as kind of lame - is new and hilarious. I read a bit about Aquaman growing a beard and having a harpoon hand and living in a cave and talking to spirits or something, and thought, how can anyone not like this guy? This crazy dude living under the water. Anyway that is the only version of Aquaman that I am really into."
It’s a process of constantly messing with superheroes in order to gain attention which ends with crazy AQM, dead AQM, pathetic AQM, and so on. The Great Lister obviously intends for this change to stick, but I hope the pathetic put-on AQM doesn’t hang around.
”I'd most definitely buy a comic about a belligerent hermit Aquaman. Extra points to it if he's also a shaman and drinks malt liquor.”
How’s about the Brave And Bold Aquaman having a long-lost twin who’s that ‘belligerent hermit”? They could drink malt liquor together, although I can’t see them getting on that well. Well, the hermit obviously wouldn’t love dear gregarious bro …
Hello Mike:- Thank you for popping in. “Yes exactly!” stands a considerable compliment from your good self. I’d take that as a comment in itself from you anytime :)
ReplyDelete”This Aquaman comic, though... yikes. It's a very immature comic. I think Geoff Johns needs to stay away from fandom, get over the fact that people don't always like his work, and figure out what made his best comics so successful.”
I suspect that it’d be hard to challenge the Great Lister’s sense of purpose and achievement at the moment. He’s massively successful in commercial terms, sought after in a series of mediums, incredibly powerful at DC, clearly adored by a significant number of fans; it’s hard to see how he’d ever need or want to think things through in anyone’s terms but his own. Of course, that does mean that it’s tough to see why he’d want to be swiping at the saddest of fanboys.
”Remember Grant Morrison & Howard Porter's JLA #4? In one page, they had a villain taunt Aquaman about his powers followed by Aquaman shutting down the villain's brain. It was a bit meta without being forced, and gave Aquaman a "f*** yeah" moment. No fan-baiting, no petulance. Aquaman beats an alien with a greater power set through smart application of his own abilities and the right touch of attitude.”
It nailed Aquaman as a terrifying powerful protagonist. Morrison did this several times, such as when AQM wandered into a war zone in the last of GM’s arc and explained that he had an army of his own and everyone was going to stop fighting immediately. THAT’S how you do, with consistent invention and fine storytelling.
”I think a big problem is the Rump and its love of grim & gritty. Sure, the critics and more discerning fans celebrated Blue Beetle, Incredible Hercules, Agents of Atlas, Secret Six, and other marginal sellers that contained some humor and joy (even as they dealt with their share of blood and misery), but the best-sellers were usually cheerless crossovers and darker reboots. The taste of the Rump doesn't match my tastes, so maybe some are now getting the comics they deserve? I hate to say it, but after reading some of the more reactionary misogynistic garbage spewed at any who questioned the portrayal of women in the new DC comics, my opinion of the Rump has gone down.”
I love the irony of DC trying to lastingly increase their market by appealing to the recently-left members of the Rump. Because most of those 52 books are aimed at such a narrow audience that I suspect they’ll actively scare away non-Rumpies. This is not a clever longterm strategy, or at least, it doesn’t seem to be. I will tip my hat when DC proves me wrong and brings the new millennium into play :)
”But, at least we have some sensible, sane voices calling for the Big 2 to do better. I hope some of the problems of the DC #1s are fixed as the comics move on, and that Marvel & others learn from DC's mistakes and success.”
It’s hard to kill a sub-genre as loved as the superhero book. But, boy, folks seem almost to have been trying to do so over the past few decades, with a few brief highpoints punctuating the mediocrity.
“As always, I hope the day finds you well and that the next comics you read have a bit of a sunnier outlook.”
It’s always a pleasure to hear from you, Mike. Best wishes to you, and I do intend to look for comics to rave about A.S.A.P.
Hello Historyman:- "Ok, I just figured out a more succinct way to say what the problem was with the issue- that it completely missed the point. When somebody comes up to Aquaman and asks if he talks to fish, the correct response is not "No, shut up. That's dumb." It's "Fuck yes I talk to fish! Talking to fish is awesome!" and then some kind of disaster happens that his talking-to-fish ability is the only thing that can fix, and he's applauded as a hero. That's how to do that right."
ReplyDeleteWhat ISN'T cool about talking to fish? Are we really so grown-up now that we've nothing of magic left in our pop myths? Do we need Mowgli leading herds of blood-thirsty T.Rex, or Dr Doolittle only communicating with the likes of flying piranhas and feet-eating killer worms?
Actually, I find both ideas quite interesting, but with a sense of humour now. And the problem, as it's long been, is that comics are produced by folks who believe that it's hip to be miserable, grim and excessively violent. That's why it's no coincidence that my favourite creators have a sense of humour; Simone, Cornell, Ewing, Templeton, Williams, Fraser, and so on.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
Indeed. Hear, hear. Only a child is scared of seeming to be so.
Hello Hoosier X:- “The girl working there was much more helpful than the young man behind the counter last week.”
ReplyDeleteYou’d think everyone working in a comics shop in this economic situation would be helpful, wouldn’t you? Of course, that’s a daydream and a half …
“She told me the popular "New 52" titles are available at cover price THE DAY THEY COME IN!”
What’s that? An 8-hour window to get these comics at cover price? I do hope you’ll find somewhere else, and perhaps that other shop, to invest in.
”I did get Huntress #1, which has really nice art, and the fraction of a story contained therein was not so badly done.”
Martin at TooDangerousForAGirl spoke well of the comic. I’m glad it wasn’t a real let-down.
”I hope the new comic book store is a more pleasant experience. If not, I have been thinking about looking into a service. But I so like the idea of a local comic book shop. However, if I can't find one that doesn't suck, I'll go with the subscription service.”
It’s astonishing that you’d have to seek out a sub service. Because keeping local comics shops going is ALWAYS a good idea. (I buy, as I said, from A Place In Space, and they have a shop or two as well. I feel as if I’m doing something of the right thing as well as getting my comics at a fair price and with excellent serice.)
”I love Aquaman as well. I think I'm going to get out the last year or so of the 1970s series and flip throught them tonight.”
I hope that’s fun. I’m hoping for another Aquaman Showcase in the near future. That’d make a fine Sunday afternoon’s read as Autumn sets in.
Hello Harvey:- “Aquaman's petulance in the restaurant due to his being given grief over his unpopularity reminds me of the "Astro City" arc with Steeljack ..”
ReplyDeleteThat’s a great call. I recall the story with fondness, but my mind didn’t have the discipline to link a story I’d enjoyed with one which, at best, utterly baffled me.
“Even the villain in that story knew that a superhero caring about his PR and popularity was irresponsible and dangerous.”
And, of course, that’s the theme of the story. As superheroes always used to say, it’s not about the applause, it’s about the doing of the right thing. There have been so many fine stories about this basic moral issue that you’d think that one or two might have stuck. With great powers come …. adoration, fame, power and no doubt a place in the final of X-Factor,
”Hm.”
“Hm” indeed, Harvey.
Hello Historyman:- Please don't think that your recommendations are valued here. It's simply a matter of working through more material than I've hours in the day to put to use. I don't mean that in terms of "poor poor pitiful me". It's great to have a file behind the computer of all the things I've got the chance to check out. I'm shamefully greedy for such steers and I love the fact that I'm never lost for places to go due to the kindness and expert knowledge of others. But to give you one example; I was recommended American Vampire almost a year ago, and I'm writing about it today.
ReplyDeleteAgain, this isn't to portray myself as a pathetic, Aquaman-like harrassed individual. I love always having so many places to go next. But it wasn't my intention to show disrespect in having a fair degree of backlog to be worked through.
Colin- I don't mean to make you feel bad for not getting to it yet- I understand, huge backlog, massive amounts of in-depth entries to write, of course you're free to do what you will with your time. I would be loathe to suggest otherwise. My intention was purely to clarify the reference I'd made earlier. Apologies for any unintentional pressure I inadvertently could have applied.
ReplyDeleteHello Historyman:- Are you sure you're not British and over the age of 40, because we spend all our time apologising and then apologising because someone else has apologised and so on :)
ReplyDeleteI promise you, I took no offense at all. I just felt rather crumby, as if I've been offered a kind present and not thought to actually unwrap it.
No pressure, no offence; I promise you. No, I'm in the wrong here, and if I don't stop typing, I'll be apologising again :)
From your own archives, a rebuttal to Aquaman.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I would love to walk into a seafood restaurant in a shiny orange shirt and green tights with matching gloves, all while carrying a big golden trident. Who among us wouldn't?
Extra points for ordering the food in the best Brian Blessed impression you can muster.
"I WILL HAVE...THE COD! AH HA HA HA HAAA!"
(Ooh, now I have plans for the weekend...)
Hello Harvey:- No, YOU'RE good. I had exactly that story, in addition to Amazing Fantasy # 15, in mind. And you're right, it IS the perfect rebuttal, isn't it? Can you imagine what the ghost of Kara Zor-EL would think if she'd watched AQM's hurt and angry ego responding not to dealing with death and a permanent alienation from humanity, as was afflicting Deadman in Mr Brennert's story, but the horrendous suffering caused by group chats during fish'n'chips.
ReplyDeleteYou have plans for the weekend? I have plans to steal your most splendid plan for the world's largest Aqua-Anti-Whine-In. Imagine, a chippie, or a chain of them, crammed to the gills with Aquamans, the foundations and windows quaking with the sheer joy of it!
WE WILL ALL HAVE .... THE COD! AH HA HA HA HAAA! BRING US YOUR WHINGING FAN-BOYS SO THAT WE MAY - AHA! - DEAL WITH THEM!
I'd watch that. I'd sponsor that. I'd buy a comic with that in too :)
rob! said: "I've come to the realization that there is simply isn't going to be a mainstream superhero comic book that's going to blow me away like they did when I was fifteen."
ReplyDeleteFair enough. And yet, with all due respect and with appreciation for your wider context, I can list several comics, even super-hero ones, that have done just this. Ellis's Planetary and The Authority did this. Millar's Authority as well. So too some of Moore's ABC work (and his Supreme before that). Millar's Civil War did it too. More recently, Ellis's Avatar work has too (e.g. Supergods). Just to name a few off the top of my head, all of which felt like revelations (and still are).
I think the problem isn't that super-hero stories can't touch us as older men. It's just that the failures weren't so apparent to us, as children. Quality work, I'd like to humbly suggest, may still make us feel like a teenager, our mind BLOWN by what we're reading, our adrenaline pumping for the next issue, before which we'll talk to all our friends about this great thing we've discovered.
That's what I want too, and although our standards may have risen, it's still very much possible.
Just as it is in other media. For all its many faults, Doctor Who can still get me excited the way Next Generation might have in my youth. So too did Nolan's Dark Knight excite us the way Burton's Batman might once have.
It's easy to feel jaded. I do too. And yes, we'd have once overlooked a lot of faults that now seem glaringly obvious. But that doesn't mean we can't still feel our hearts skip a beat, our eyes widen, and our minds reel with wonder.
re Willis' Shortpacked!, there's also a rather cutting strip on a Transformers conventional panel's comments specifically and about people not thinking in general http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/02-the-new-girl/glitch/ (The character Ethan here is gay)
ReplyDelete- Charles RB
Hello Julian:- "I think the problem isn't that super-hero stories can't touch us as older men. It's just that the failures weren't so apparent to us, as children. Quality work, I'd like to humbly suggest, may still make us feel like a teenager, our mind BLOWN by what we're reading, our adrenaline pumping for the next issue, before which we'll talk to all our friends about this great thing we've discovered.!
ReplyDeleteI have absolutely no doubt that this is true. Hear hear. I certainly can't loose myself in a great stack of comics and love them all as I could even up into my early Twenties. But I've not lost that capacity to surrender to a fine piece of work. Whereas a teenage me might love every Star Trek episode, today I might find myself treasuring one or two episodes of each series of Dr Who. Yet I find that I love those particular moments of excellence more than I could express. It's such a challenge to create work that matches the past and still creates its own sense of value. (Any craftsperson who isn't in competition with the past must be odd egg indeed. I have a terrible suspicion that some at least of today's books are created with an eye on the reader who knows little of the past, meaning that a shallower and shallower pool of cliches gets put to use.)
This year I've found myself feeling as happy I can imagine over Nikolai Dante and Low Life, Gods Of Manhattan and Demon Knights, Johnny Red (Which I'd never properly read) and Generation Hope, Phonogram and Daredevil, Hellboy and The Goon .... Hang On!
Is it possible that this might actually have been, amidst among all the hype and mediocrity, a rather good year!!!!!!!!!
MMMMMMM. I feel a blog coming on ....
Hello Charles:- Thank you!!! You never fail to astonish me with the breadth and depth of your knowledge, and the fact that you wear it so lightly too.
ReplyDeleteWhich sounds a terribly worthy comment on my part, doesn't it? But it's true all the same ... :)
Colin-
ReplyDelete" I have a terrible suspicion that some at least of today's books are created with an eye on the reader who knows little of the past, meaning that a shallower and shallower pool of cliches gets put to use.) "
Interesting since back when comics actually were intended for kids, didn't they assume the readers knew nothing of the past, rewriting the same stories every few years since the pool of readers was assumed to have cycled by then?
I suppose you mean more storytelling techniques than actual stories? Or even that the writers have read less of the past than writers decades ago.
(Though with such a young medium, there was quantitatively far LESS of it in the past. Still, in the last few years, I've gone from almost no knowledge about comics (especially superhero comics) to having a decent idea of some of the most prominent and best creators in the genre, and their different styles and techniques. If I can do it, someone in the industry can too.)
Charles-
That is a good one, too, actually kind of heartbreaking. Mr. Willis's ability to go between humor and pathos, with neither usually feeling forced, is quite admirable.
PS Colin: no, I'M sorry!
Hello Historyman:- "I suppose you mean more storytelling techniques than actual stories? Or even that the writers have read less of the past than writers decades ago."
ReplyDeleteGood question. Thank you for making me make sense. I fear both problems. The loss of storytelling techniques quite literally frightens me. But the fact that so little of the past appears to be known, or at least is referrenced and adapted, is a concern too, to say the least. A book such as the new Hawk and Dove seems to bear no relation to anything but the most generic of superhero stories. This can't be a good thing.
"If I can do it, someone in the industry can too."
And it's FUN too. Who wouldn't want to? Seriously, seriously fun.
ps. Note no apologies. Although I want to add at least one ...