Thursday, 19 July 2012

The Torturer As Hero In "Batman: Earth One" by Geoff Johns & Gary Frank

Readers who've visited TooBusy's features on the glorification of torture in comics before may want to skip to the third paragraph, where we the introduction's over and the nitty-gritty of this particularly unwholesome tale of an alt-world Batman tale is introduced. And, yes, I've dialed down the righteous anger after the last visit this subject, because I'm sadly less surprised by this stuff now;

Say hello to the second-string good guys! (They're the ones doing the beating up.)
              

Torture! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing, of course, unless it happens in a superhero comic book.

In reality, torture's a technique that's scorned by every professional who's on the side of law and order that's not (a) an idiot, (b) psychologically disordered, or (c) both. It's a matter which we've discussed many times before here at TooBusyThinking. Entirely untrustworthy as a method of extracting reliable evidence, the best that torture can be used to do is produce dubious data which to some small degree might confirm what traditional and legitimate methods of investigation have already uncovered. Even those folks who seem worryingly unable to grasp why it's wrong to harm others might be expected to pick up on the simple and empirically-established truth that torture doesn't work. Sadly, that rarely seems to be so.
     


Perhaps something of this toxic brew of stupidity and hard-heartedness is rooted in the modern entertainment industry's endless celebrations of what torture can do for the citizens of the free world. Not only will it inevitably save the day, or so we're perpetually assured, but it'll ennoble the torturer too. In an absurd and yet all-too-predictable example of fiction turning the world entirely upside down, torture becomes an entirely reliable method of saving the innocent and honouring the torturer. Oh, the virtues of the brave and nation-saving citizens who force themselves to undertake such inconveniently unpleasant tasks in order to serve the greater good!


Poor Jimmy Gordon is humiliated! Only torture will make him a real man after this!
       
In Geoff Johns and Gary Frank's Batman: Year One, we're presented with a particularly distasteful example of a supposedly virtuous and heroically unavoidable torture. Indeed, Johns and Franks have succeeded in presenting a scenario that's in some ways even more despicable than that recently offered up by Slott, Ramos and Wacker in Amazing Spider-Man #685. (See here and here for details.) As is always the case in these situations, the antagonist who's going to be abused has already been established as a fearsomely unpleasant individual who's also carrying secret information that could result in justice being served and lives being saved. As is also mandatory according to the traditions of the torture-legitimising comic, there seems to be no way to avoid seriously harming the bad guy. (It is nearly always a man that's tortured by the protagonists, of course.) Finally, as I'm sure you'll expect by now, the information that's forced out of the apparently oh-so-deserving victim proves to be both accurate and essential to the saving of the day.
    


 And so, we're asked to vicariously engage in the beating of one "Axe", a unconvincingly cartoon-despicable thug, by the crow-bar wielding James Gordon and the baseball bat bearing Harvey Bullock . It's a scene designed to thrill the reader as the poor frustrated cops finally turn and beat justice and courtesy out of one of their tormentors. In order to serve the law, it seems, Gordon and Bullock are being compelled to thoroughly violate it. After all, that is a baseball bat cracking down onto Axe's skull, although Gary Frank doesn't choose to portray the consequences of such an assault beyond the token gesture of a few hardly-disturbing trickles of blood. That might led the reader, after all, to wonder who the good guys are. Instead, as you can see from the scan above, the book's creators are careful to show Axe mocking his attackers and belittling their role as guardians of the public even after he's been beaten to the ground. It's not just that he knows the secret of where Gordon's beloved daughter has been taken. He also a thoroughly bad lot who just can't shut up! Well, under those conditions, he was asking for it, wasn't he?

He deserved all that he got, and who could blame the boys for enjoying giving it to him?


   
But in its grim excess of schoolboy-machismo and right-wing vigilantism, Batman Earth One extends the boundaries of the schema used by the creators of superhero books to justify their protagonist's inhumanity. For instead of undertaking their torturing tasks with reluctance, as is typical in these situations, Bullock and Gordan engage upon their terrible responsibilities with such relish that they appear positively aroused. Furious and excited, these are men who been freed from their humiliating roles as emasculated, quarreling victims. Street criminals and corrupted politicos alike have ruined their lives, but now they're fighting back. Indeed, this is the moment in BEO which represents the beginning of the saving of Gotham City, because it's the first time that an attempt to fight the forces of disorder hasn't ended in some kind of failure. And so, we're presented with the sight of the teeth-clenching Bullock and Gordon united in both thought and action, the former redeemed from his callow self-interest and the latter from his fearful cowering. Beating Axe into unconsciousness, at the very least, isn't just a necessary act, the story tells us, but a glorious and thrilling one. There's even a gag shoved into Bullock's mouth so that we can laugh along with the policemen's punchline as the players on our side smash their enemy into a pulp. Even for the superhero comic, this is a particular low, and worse is yet to come, for when we're next shown Axe, he's being dumped in a police station by Gordon and used as an example of what good men and women can do if they're just brave and determined enough. It's usually a bad idea to throw men who've been pummeled into unconsciousness onto the ground afterwards, and that's especially so given that Axe has apparently been out for at the very least an hour or two. Most officers would be beginning to think of a hospital and a good excuse for the police report, but not Jimmy G, who's content to declare as a real man might that "He walked in front of my car". Well, sense is as unimportant as conventional morality in Johns' work these days, and it seems that the reader's supposed to stare at that horrid criminal - why, he's even got tattoos! - and be glad that good times are coming for the lawless city.

Gordon: "Who else says he can't be arrested! Who else is going to let this city be owned by the criminal scum that prey off it? Who else is a damn coward?"



There are those who'll try to claim that this is a different James Gordon on a different Earth. They'll argue that he shouldn't be considered bound by the ethics traditionally associated with the character as seen in the mainstream DCU books. And they'll probably miss the fact that these objections to Gordon's behaviour have nothing to do his past in any other fictional continuity. For it's not the character's identity which makes these incidents detestable, but rather, the way in which the narrative rewards the vigilantism that's on show. Gordon's behaviour is showered with rewards in the text. He turns from weakling to man-beater, from coward to hero, from lick-spittle to tub-thumping reformer. His daughter is saved, his honour is redeemed, his reputation is secured. Torture is the making of the man, as torture always is these days in such stories. Torture brought the truth and ennobled the torturer, because that's what torture does in so many of the super-books of 2012.

Poor Officer Gordon. He's been harshly treated, but don't worry, it's just an excuse to show him fighting back. Look, he's got a scratch on his nose. The poor man. Who wouldn't beat on a defenceless man under such conditions?
   
It is true that Harvey Bullock is later shown descending into alcoholism due to the horrors that he's experienced during his brief duty in Gotham City. Yet it's important to note that Bullock shows no sign at all of regretting his law-breaking. In fact, such sins are, of course, virtues, and treated as such. What breaks him is seeing a mass of murdered girls and young women who've been murdered by a seven foot tall, hyper-muscled serial killer. It's the horror inspired by Gotham's criminal classes, who could've been stopped by a great degree of machismo, and not any kind of self-reflection and shame which does for Harvey. What's more, the great gimp-masked killer who's captured his daughter serves to so justify the police officer's crimes that it's hard to remember just what it is that Gordon's been up to. For Barbara Gordon's kidnapper is a signifier of everything that modern-era society is supposed to be most terrified of. Psychopathic, pedophilic, impossibly powerful, simple-minded, and in the pay of faithless politicians! What could be more evil? What can't be justified in the war against beasts?

       
No doubt the comics blogosphere is already alive with condemnations of this dead-heartedly callous and profoundly ignorant comic book. Still, I hope you'll forgive me if I add my own cracked harmony to the choir. Johns' script for Batman Earth One is a despicably cliched and thick-headed one even before its die-hard reactionary values become obvious, as you can tell from Gordon's embarrassingly macho-trite dialogue in the above. Sadly, Frank's artful storytelling does nothing to diminish the reprehensible ethics of the piece. Indeed, quite the opposite is true. This is a pornographic celebration of righteous torture and nothing but.

Just when you think that the worst of the mainstream superhero book can't get any more despicable, here's Johns and Frank's attempt to create a Batman book that's immediately accessible to the general reader. How the industry can be proud, how DC must be gratified by all the money that's being generated in the company's supposedly good name.

Go get them criminals, Jim boy!
       
To those who want to argue that torture's a good and/or necessary6thing, my opinions are already stated in considerable detail in the 100+ comments after the torturing-Spider-Man piece. I've nothing to add to that, so please, if you want to know where I stand, that's where to go. There's no  point in my repeating myself here, and quite frankly, my mind's pretty made up anyway. The usual polite too and fro is, however, very much encouraged.

.

72 comments:

  1. I can't believe there's excessive violence and dodgy politics in an American superhero comic! No way! Etc.

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    1. Hello Mark:- Look, mate, I don't want to upset and shock you, but ...

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  2. At this point, Colin, the comics writers are just doing this to provoke you; in fact Geoff Johns is a fan of yours and he wrote this because he wanted to read another one of your marvellous articles on the ethics of torture.

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    1. Hello Miguel:- There's a comic strip to be developed about a blogger who's sure the comics industry exists solely to provoke him. I will try to avoid turning into what the lead of such a strip would be like :)

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    2. Andrew Taylor20 July 2012 00:24

      If that's the case, maybe Johns will go so far into this macho-grim mode that his writing becomes self-parody, rather than just dour and unpleasant? A guy can dream. :)

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    3. Hello Andrew:- Agreed. Anything to help the reader feel less unpleasant when exposed to this material. The weight of unpleasantness which comes off the page is overwhelming. At least a sense that the man was less in control of what he was doing would permit a chuckle or two. But this is intense, purposeful stuff, I fear ...

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  3. It made me remember a class during my graduation (in Psychology)in which a psychiatrist told us that he had persecuted a client who suffered from paranoia going to his home, forcing him to confront his fears from being persecuted. The man left his home and family and became homeless, (terrified) and the doctor still was thinking he had done good because he was making him confront the truth.


    Another doctor, also by the sake of 'truth', couldn't rest until he made his patient confess, in front of a group of people, that his by then already cured STD was caused because he had practiced zoophilia.

    None of these actions contributed to the patients situation, and caused then lots of trouble, but was presented to us, students, as model roles of ethical behavior, because the truth had emerged, conveniently pleasing some sadistic tendencies of the doctors.

    Unfortunately, the recommendation of porn torture is not restricted to fiction.

    PPs: Sadly this comic has been compared to TDKR by IGN reviewers...

    (http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/07/04/batman-earth-one-review).

    PS: The storytelling maneuver of insulting the characters that don't behave as badassticly as the ones the writer wants to make look cool and noble is nearly offensive to the reader. It is almost as if the writer wanted to treat his reader as a child who can't take moral decisions.

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    1. Hello Thomaz:- My gawd, but that psychiatrist and that doctor must have broken every ethical principle that informs the profession. I'm horrified by the very idea ...

      You've certainly shaken me, Mr T. It's not that I'm not aware that mental health professionals in a wide variety of fields aren't as human and fallable as anyone else. I just struggle to imagine someone who's been that unfair owning up to it.

      But of course I'm being naive, and I of course get your point that these myths of power are limited to the pages of comic fiction.

      Finally, I fear that GJ often treats his readers as children in BEO. It's a topic I'll be doubling back, because I find his lack of faith in his audience's intelligence interesting. Or perhaps he believes that readers don't want to be faced with the slightest narrative demands when sitting down to a super-book. A strange POV, but it doesn't seem to be hurting his books popularity ...

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    2. Hello Colin,

      When I first heard these stories they really have shocked me too... Actually still now I'm terrified that someone could even think about this behavior as a model to be followed.
      When I first posted a comment in your blog, I was quite touched with you post about Spidey. I had then these stories I've just shared above in mind and I was really, really sad thinking how in our time one seems not have to worry about moral issues to play the hero/savior role.
      As fantastic as comic books may be (and people keep forgetting this), fiction always have a reality counterpart, and this kind of comic book make me wonder about what does the growing popularity of this kind of narrative says of our time....

      Ps: matthew mclaughlin have made a good point bellow, and noticing it makes this spider tale even worse 'cause the care with the way normal people reacted to Spider's actions have always been an important part in Peter Parker's life since Stan Lee's run, so we can only think in the way spider react to Sandman's torture as a moral throwback to Spidey.

      PPS: Sorry for the pessimistic tone. It is not that I believe that some kind of dystopic future is coming, but "prevention is better than cure" and it is always important to emphasize the value of respect for the others in order to make the future a 'good place to be'.

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    3. Hello Thomaz:- There's naught wrong with expressing disappointment in how an aspect culture strikes you. I share your concern about the fact that the present doesn't often seem to have learned from the past at all. Prevention is better than cure, but even cure's unlikely in a time where a great many people don't want to prevent stupid thinking and dangerous behaviour. We know how fiction functions, we know how it can influence a culture's discourse, and yet the likes of GJ either buy into the values which BEO transmits or they don't care about the meaning of their own work.

      And that does say a great deal about the culture of the day, I fear.

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    4. It's in Portuguese, I know, but I think it says something about this subject:

      http://www.opovo.com.br/app/opovo/brasil/2012/07/23/noticiasjornalbrasil,2883754/estudo-tenta-entender-o-que-leva-pm-a-matar.shtml

      It's a post about a Cop's essay on the impacts of the impunity of crimes of murder committed by cops. Most of the cops who lost their limits and started tho kill the criminals we're described by their fellows as the ones who felt like if they had 'super powers' once they had a weapon in their hands.

      Confronting an extreme violence, some cops have become more and more violent too, and innocent people have got killed in the process.

      Hope Gordon stops his fall before that.

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    5. Hello Thomaz:- Agreed. I hope this particular Gordon does halt his fall, although how you redeem yourself for such a crime, regardless of the provocation is beyond me.

      I would love to think that BEO is just the first step in a story designed to establish exactly why such brutality is entirely unacceptable. Sadly, the first chapter of this series was so poor, in narrative as well as ethical terms, that I won't be around to tell ...

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  4. "For it's not the character's identity which makes these incidents detestable, but rather, the way in which the narrative rewards the vigilantism that's on show."

    There's a big storytelling opportunity here that these writers are missing. Heroes engage in torture for the good of the people, right, okay, yeah - but what if instead of being rewarded, they're condemned by the very people they've saved, people who - rather than applaud these despicable actions - are disgusted by it. Imagine Spider-Man, so sure he was doing the right thing by torturing Sandman, was faced with real consequences for his actions. Imagine if he was suddenly cast as a villain for it. Then we have the opportunity for a darker, more compelling redemption story. A hero, suddenly stripped of his title as hero, plunged into self-doubt and remorse, hitting rock bottom, hated by the masses - who has to slowly but surely redeem himself not only in the public's eye, but his own.

    Instead we get this bullshit.

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    1. Hello Matthew:- You put your finger on a major failing of these stories. They're used to glorify violence and, at times, purposefully shovel in reactionary politics into the text. But what they're not usually used to do is really dig into who the character is and how they relate to the world around them. We could learn about James Gordon and Peter Parker if their actions had consequences beyond making them powerful and - supposedly - admirable.

      Bullshit? Well, I look again at that gleeful picture of Bullock and Gordon setting out to beat a man and 'bullshit' seems the least that could be said. So, yes, I'm with you here ...

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    2. Imagine Spider-Man, so sure he was doing the right thing by torturing Sandman, was faced with real consequences for his actions. Imagine if he was suddenly cast as a villain for it. Then we have the opportunity for a darker, more compelling redemption story.

      I'm pretty sure this happened back in the 1970s and 1980s; the hero would go into a frenzy and beat the crap out of the villain, and the civilians standing by would stop him and lecture him on the use of violence. You still see this type of point being made in superheroes once in a while, but I think writers were more sensitive to in the past.

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    3. Hello Miguel:- I can recall - vaguely - some Sixties Marvel books where bystanders were pushing a peace and love agenda on the superheroes around them. In fact, a memory is coming to mind of a Thor comic in which he's debating with what could be beatniks or hippies. I hope I recall a touch more so I can track that down. But yes, there were a fair number of scenes in which the public expressed their opinions to Marvel heroes. It's hard to think of anything of the same today, unless it's a scene in which protestors set up by Norman Osbourne spout unconvincing nonsense about ... well, nothing worth paying attention to at all, really.

      There are, as I always try to say, good super-books from the Big Two out there. But generally, these aren't good times where the superhero book is concerned. Of course, I know you believe that without needing the slightest prompting for me.

      It's a damn shame .. If only there were a few more writers who were, as you say, "sensitive" to matters beyond the soap and the crossovers.

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  5. The only quibble I have is that a "right wing vigilante" is a redundancy. A vigilante distrusts government to the point of taking the law into his own hands - that's pretty much right wing by definition.

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    1. Hello there;- I fear I'd have to disagree with you. If we only choose to look at the superhero books, there's plenty of vigilantes who are anything but right-wing. The anarchist V, the radical version of Ollie Queen.

      Out here in the real world, there's plenty of examples of vigilantes to choose from who serve causes that aren't right wing. For some reason, the IRA during the Troubles comes first to mind, and that itself would counter your argument.

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    2. Timothy Rogers20 July 2012 09:47

      I can't speak to Ollie Queen as I've read very little GA but there is a significant difference between V & the IRA and vigilantes such as Batman & Spiderman - both of the former engage in vigilante activities as part of overthrowing a state that is itself criminal or enabling of criminal activity. None of the superhero vigilantes that I've encountered (apart from Batman in The Dark Knight Strikes Again) seek to destroy or replace the state, they simply ignore it's rules in pursuit of what they regard to be a greater good. In a democracy, a social system that gives it's member's significant leeway in influencing both the laws of the state and how those laws are enforced, that does make lionising any form of vigilante activity a very questionable position - particularly when the vigilante isn't also acting to remove, replace or at least significantly change the state that the vigilante must in some way regard as at the very least so useless that it makes their vigilantism necessary and justifiable.

      Or in other words any vigilante who isn't actively working to achieve a society where their breaking of the law isn't needed doesn't seem to me to be acting for the good of anyone but themselves.

      Which leads me to the question I really entered the comments ask -

      "Oh, the virtues of the brave and nation-saving citizens who force themselves to undertake such inconveniently unpleasant tasks in order to serve the greater good!"

      "In order to serve the law, it seems, Gordon and Bullock are being compelled to thoroughly violate it."

      I understand that here you're specifically condemning torture but all I can see is difference of degree between the actions here and the actions of Batman, Spiderman and indeed all the other vigilante "heroes" of DC & Marvel that I've encountered to date, not a qualitative difference. Replace the names with Spiderman and Batman and the context with the punches (nvm the sharp bladed objects Batman favours or Green Arrow's, well, arrows) they've thrown, the citizens they've unlawfully detained, the trespassing laws they've broken, the civil liberties they routinely violate and for me the condemnation reads the same.

      I'm wondering therefore is it different for you? Do you see a qualitative difference between say Batman and Gordon's actions or Spiderman's pre & post torture of Sandman or is there a simply a line that you regard Gordon and Spiderman as having crossed? And if the latter why do draw it there and not say at Batman throwing knives at people?

      I'm sorry, that last question reads rather more aggressively that I intend but I can't seem to phrase it more politely - it feels rather leading which is both a little true - I really really don't understand your position - but also not true as I do want to understand your position rather than simply bully you into agreeing with mine.

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    3. Hello Timothy:- You’re questions are good ones, but in my defence, I would say that I never meant to suggest that there weren’t significant differences between the types of vigilantes which I mentioned. My point was intended as a straight-forward response to the question asked, namely, that the business of being a vigilante tells us nothing in itself about the politics of the law-breaker.

      If we go, for the sake of simplicity/easy access, with the Wiki definition of the word, then Superman and V both fall into the same category;

      A vigilante is a private individual (or (pl.) group of individuals) who undertakes law enforcement without legal authority “

      My mention of the IRA was directed at the assumption of the administration of a take on justice within the community it claimed to represent rather than the matter of armed revolution. Of course, dividing those two aspects is an artificial matter in many ways, but para-militaries of all stripes had taken it upon themselves to do exactly that. But when the IRA, to take but one example chosen just because it came to mind, has chosen to police a neighbourhood it claims for its own, they are, regardless of any other aspects of policy formal and informal, vigilantes.

      This is of course different from what most superhero vigilantes appear to be doing. But then, one thing I’ve not mentioned is the fact that “superhero” and “vigilante” aren’t synonymous. The Batman and Superman of the past were often legally licensed arms of the law. The Avengers appear to be exactly that now. I add this not because it contradicts a word of what you say, but just to note how complicated this argument can become!

      “Or in other words any vigilante who isn't actively working to achieve a society where their breaking of the law isn't needed doesn't seem to me to be acting for the good of anyone but themselves.”

      I think that’s a fascinating point. I don’t agree as a rule, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t respect your point. We’ve discussed it in another context before, of course. By which I don’t mean, “we’ve talked about this”, because we haven’t; the context was different. But to me, it’s a more complicated subject in terms of the narrative of being a vigilante. Some superheroes will be revolutionaries, some reactionaries, some disordered, some clearly not. It’s not what the superhero seeks to do that determines whether I think the story itself is a ethical one. Rather, it’s what the strip is designed to discuss. A superhero who goes out and beats up noisy neighbours may be nothing more than a pathetic and potentially pernicious revenge fantasy. But in the right hands, it’s a way of commenting upon the way that the state doesn’t and often can’t regulate the everyday interaction of its citizens. The super-vigilante can be used to discuss a whole host of debates about where the state’s responsibilities are or aren’t being fulfilled, and that means that the superhero’s motives need to be relevant to the politics at hand. If all a superhero is justified in doing is fundamentally changing society for the better, then the range of what can and can’t be discussed is massively constrained.

      Cont;

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    4. cont

      “I'm wondering therefore is it different for you? Do you see a qualitative difference between say Batman and Gordon's actions or Spiderman's pre & post torture of Sandman or is there a simply a line that you regard Gordon and Spiderman as having crossed? And if the latter why do draw it there and not say at Batman throwing knives at people?”

      It’s a huge question, Tim, though I promise you that it doesn’t come across as one that’s aggressive in any way. The question of where I stand on specifics is tied up in what I’ve written in the first part of this reply. A more detailed explanation might, in the unlikely event that you have a huge degree of time & naught better to do, can be found in the following 2 posts;

      http://toobusythinkingboutcomics.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/fascist-superman-tyrant-aquaman-that.html

      http://toobusythinkingboutcomics.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/ignoble-rorschach-that-fascist_30.html

      In short, each situation has to be judged in terms of its specific circumstances, and no vigilante tale will ever be unproblematic. In Batman: Earth 1, the message being given is that (1) the law doesn’t work (2) savagery makes you virtuous and heroic (3) torture works, and so on and on. If it’s a political tract, it’s the most reactionary that can be found. If it’s “just for entertainment”, then it’s appallingly irresponsible.

      But all I’m saying is that (a) this are my judgments, not objective “rules”, and (2) there’s no way to close the debate because it’s too complex.

      Which is why I love it, because it forces us to constantly engage with the impossibilities and achievements of civil society :)

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    5. Timothy Rogers22 July 2012 10:17

      Hi Colin, thanks for the detail in your reply. I never took you as saying they were identical, I just wanted to join the conversation here because emphasising the difference helped me ground my own thoughts as clearly as possible.

      “A vigilante is a private individual (or (pl.) group of individuals) who undertakes law enforcement without legal authority ”

      It took me a while to get over this speed bump because it doesn't really apply to V – as an anarchist he didn't enforce, nor did he want to enforce any laws. Also most of his actions were as much motivated by revenge as as anything else. However with a simple tweak – exchanging the idea of law enforcement for one related to justice and it certainly fits both.

      With the IRA I would argue that simply by maintaining that they were the authorities in the regions they policed they were fitting the bill of revolutionary change, at least within those territories. They weren't trying to be operate without legal authority – they wanted to be the legal authority. A very different matter from Superman who seeks to supplement the police force without the authority to do so rather than supplant it. The issue here with vigilantes of Batman's type is hypocrisy – they regard the legal authorities as being useless enough to require their unauthorised intervention but not so useless that they need to be changed (nor indeed so useless that it isn't safe to drop the people they've detained off with them - frequently with poorly gathered and insufficient evidence to guarantee a safe conviction).

      “The Batman and Superman of the past were often legally licensed arms of the law. The Avengers appear to be exactly that now. I add this not because it contradicts a word of what you say, but just to note how complicated this argument can become!”

      On the contrary, I would say that this simplifies the argument! My points as made can only be directed against only those who fit the description of imposing or bringing to justice without legal authority. At any time if they were given the authority to do so legally and exercised that authority within the parameters of the laws that gave them the authority they're completely free of the criticism I'm making. Indeed I'd go further and say that so long as did operate only within their authority any issue on might have with their actions can no longer be meaningfully directed at them but instead at the bodies that have authorised them. To give a counter in the real world, when a police officer behaves inappropriately although we have a problem with hir we raise it with hir superiors. When the police as a whole behave inappropriately we have a problem with the government and raise it with parliament. In both instances though we refer to the higher authority from which the police officer or police force derives it's authority. With Batman as he currently is there is no higher authority that he recognises– if we disagree with the Batman we live in fear of him or get punched in the teeth by him if we try and stop him. Or more correctly our proxies the police get punched in the teeth by him.

      cont.

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    6. Timothy Rogers22 July 2012 10:18

      cont.

      “Some superheroes will be revolutionaries, some reactionaries, some disordered, some clearly not. It’s not what the superhero seeks to do that determines whether I think the story itself is a ethical one. Rather, it’s what the strip is designed to discuss. A superhero who goes out and beats up noisy neighbours may be nothing more than a pathetic and potentially pernicious revenge fantasy. But in the right hands, it’s a way of commenting upon the way that the state doesn’t and often can’t regulate the everyday interaction of its citizens.”

      It could be a great story indeed but can you imagine any version of that story that isn't either very tongue in cheek or doesn't include some criticism of the super”hero” for assaulting people for privacy invasion? I agree that the story doesn't have to have ethical behaviour in it to be ethical but it does need to at least question the unethical behaviour and certainly not wholesale agree with and celebrate it as heroic as I find most vigilantes tales to do. I'd offer Judge Dredd as the perfect counter here as not only does the story give Dredd legal authority it then uses his actions to question the rightness of the legal authority he possesses. If I'd be more precise in my original post I'd have better conveyed that much of my dissatisfaction with most tales of heroic vigilantes is in the telling of the story in presenting them as heroes rather than purely contempt for the the actions of the vigilantes.

      Having read through both of your linked posts I do understand your position more clearly now and while I do near completely disagree with your views (reading through it did help clarify a number of reasons why I don't like most superhero stories even when they're not about vigilantes) actually going into that here would distract from the points relating specifically to forms of vigilantism. So I'll forgo that although I am grateful for the links and the thoughts they inspired.

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    7. Hello Timothy:- "The issue here with vigilantes of Batman's type is hypocrisy – they regard the legal authorities as being useless enough to require their unauthorised intervention but not so useless that they need to be changed (nor indeed so useless that it isn't safe to drop the people they've detained off with them - frequently with poorly gathered and insufficient evidence to guarantee a safe conviction)."

      This may be true for certain representations of vigilantes, but not for others. Your fundamental argument is that a vigilante ought to be seeking some kind of radical political change. It's here that we part company, though there's no reason why we can't do so. Let's take but one example. A vigilante may be aware that the police are under-staffed and yet more than able to progress with a conviction once the criminal and information is delivered. That vigilante may only be concerned with low-level anti-social crimes. Therefore rebellion is hardly the point. Such stories allow those writers who engage with them the option to discuss how far that's justified, where the state is failing, the degree to which the vigilante is behaving unethically and so on.

      If we're extending that to situations where the city, for example, is entirely corrupt, then the question has to be "why". Gotham has been shown to be corrupted by different factors at different times. There have been and there are elites who dominate the political process. The degree to which that justifies rebellion is much broader than you're suggesting. Batman appears to believe that the system is essential good and yet it's fallen under the control of individuals and groups who aren't worthy of it. Revolution as the solution? I don't think that's in any way clear. A Batman who believes in chasing down street criminals and not elite bankers is an interesting character. IF that's investigated.

      I think we'll agree that those contradictions rarely are, although recent Batgirl issues are heading that way.

      At no point am I justifying the choices of vigilantes. Any vigilante is clearly a sign either that the state has failed or an individual is behaving in an unacceptable way. I just see that as a useful way to discuss political issues. And I don't see those issues as being easy to resolve. As of course we've discussed before, so I won't repeat myself.

      I certainly would want the super-book to constantly recognise the fact that vigilantism is illegal and nearly always indefensible. That's always been my point.

      cont;

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    8. cont;

      "It could be a great story indeed but can you imagine any version of that story that isn't either very tongue in cheek or doesn't include some criticism of the super”hero” for assaulting people for privacy invasion?"

      I could. I think there's a huge opportunity for a broad range of stories to be told there. And "tongue-in-check" and "criticism of the super-hero for assaulting people" are of course two tales which are endlessly open for reframing.

      "If I'd be more precise in my original post I'd have better conveyed that much of my dissatisfaction with most tales of heroic vigilantes is in the telling of the story in presenting them as heroes rather than purely contempt for the the actions of the vigilantes."

      I of course agree that Dredd is probably the greatest example of the comic book discussing political matters.

      Yet I will still disagree with you about the idea that there can never be a heroic vigilante. I rented a flat on an estate some 15 years ago now. The police had - I discovered to my horror - pretty much abandoned it. My front law was set alight. Mt car repeatedly vandalised. The front of the house I was renting was doused in gallons of ice cream. (No, I have no idea what was going on there. I was away on holiday at the time. Such ingenuity .. ) My point being, I think someone smacking a few heads in that situation could well be a very good idea in the short-term: ie: when someone's just about to get the living hell kicked out of them. In the longer term? Ah, well, that's what fascinating, isn't it?

      And that's what the super-book rarely shows us, isn't it?

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    9. Timothy Rogers22 July 2012 20:51

      "Your fundamental argument is that a vigilante ought to be seeking some kind of radical political change."

      You're right and that position is much too narrow isn't it? There's quite a lot of non radical change that could be achieved to address many possible social problems. In the instance you describe of there not being enough police officers to effectively police the city there would be no need for massive change. Simple lobbying of the city authorities to hire more police with vigilantism employed as a stop gap until sufficient officers have been hired & trained would suffice. But that would still be engaging with civic society which in comparison to say Spiderman's (concerned solely as he seems to be with his personal powers & the additional 'great' responsibility that he believes comes with them) highly individualistic actions would be a radical position.

      My own politics do rather prevent me from seeing any situation where more of the police would desirable hence the more limited view I presented earlier.

      "A Batman who believes in chasing down street criminals and not elite bankers is an interesting character. IF that's investigated.

      I think we'll agree that those contradictions rarely are, although recent Batgirl issues are heading that way."

      That does sound interesting, normally I wouldn't touch a Simone comic with a barge pole but I understand there's a crossover with Batwoman (I only buy it for the art, honest) in the near future so there's a god chance that my LCS will put it in my pull pile. If they do I'll try to remember to not simply hand back with a grimace.

      "My point being, I think someone smacking a few heads in that situation could well be a very good idea in the short-term: ie: when someone's just about to get the living hell kicked out of them."

      Again you challenge how I think of a vigilante in the first place. Because what you describe here would certainly be admirable - in the sense of a timely intervention by a fellow citizen or citizens and would fit the definition agreed earlier but still to me seems to have a massive gulf separating it from the intentional looking for opportunities to intervene with violence that Spiderman on "patrol" indulges in. Also as sorry as I am to hear of your past difficulties, I couldn't stop myself laughing at them covering your house in ice-cream. The council estate version of the Brotherhood of Dada perhaps?

      cont.

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    10. Timothy Rogers22 July 2012 20:54

      cont.

      "In the longer term? Ah, well, that's what fascinating, isn't it?

      And that's what the super-book rarely shows us, isn't it?"

      It is fascinating and this I think sums up a very great deal of the frustration I experience whenever I do try and read a super hero comic for reasons other than it having really pretty art - most of the mainstream titles have been around for longer than I have. A number for longer than my mother and some are only a little younger than my grandmother. For there to have been so little engagement at dealing with the long term in what are some of the longest form pieces of fiction around? Such a great opportunity so repeatedly wasted - it's how I feel before I even open the first page and I'm rarely feeling any happier by the time I reach the end.

      "I of course agree that Dredd is probably the greatest example of the comic book discussing political matters."

      Wanting to end on a more positive note I saved this for last - a couple of more recent comics have also shown what is for me a remarkable knack for engaging with politics as a serious subject, both are a arguably mite more limited in their concerns but one at least is very relevant to the discussion we've been having here and if you've the opportunity to read them I really would recommend them most strongly.

      'Duncan the Wonderdog: Show One' is an amazing complex look at animal rights and all the personal and social conflicts that subject throws up - it's set in a world largely identical to our own with the single exception that all the animals can talk. It's also brilliant a comic book just for the the range of techniques it uses to tell it's story.

      And directly dealing with ethical vigilantism - 'Shadoweyes' which concerns teenagers trying to be superheroes. I realise I don't really need to describe very much because if you ever find the time and have the interest the first 150 pages are available online and the rest are slowly following -

      http://www.shadoweyes.net/?p=81

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    11. Hello Tim:- With the current contraction of the state by the powers that be, there's going to be a need, or at the very least, a perceived need, for vigilantism, I fear. By which I mean, these issues are going to be far more important than they've been in a very long time. I desperately don't want that, but that is the way that things are going. And I guess that these at-least-mostly abstract discussions are going to be replaced by a far more pressing set of debates, Because for all that the state oppresses, it also protects, and the struggle to make the second matter outweigh the first may be historically over. I hope not. But I know that my fear isn't the police, but a state which refuses to either provide them for the masses them or control them.

      The last Batgirl issue saw the introduction of a 1%-esque elite who are raking in the billions while grinding Gotham's masses into the ground. I of course can't say that I know where it's going, but the presence of class conflict in a super-book immediately caught my interest. Ms Simone has dealt with associated issues before; her Welcome To Tranquility minis have a theme that's very much directed against the new American right, so I hope there's what would pass as radicalism heading for Batgirl.

      I of course understand you laughing at the ice cream situation. Because I spent so little time in the flat, I never realised that everyone but one other family had been intimidated out of the small street I lived on. It was obviously something for the gangs to do. Perhaps there was a Dada aspect to their rebellion, but I'm still a few years away from being free of a residual trace of it all. It is funny, absolutely, and yet, as with many amusing things, there's a real darkness there. Which may be one of the reasons why I'm all for a democratically accountable police force, and in considerable numbers too. But yes, that phrase "democratically accountable" ..

      Your point about the waste of potential that's the super-book? Absolutely agreed. But then, I guess most if not all forms are most waste. Yet the super-book is so well suited to these debates, as well as the fun of it all, so its refusal to engage with the politics of it is .... a little disappointing. Three cheers for those creators who haven't ignored the opportunity.

      I have never heard of Duncan The Wonderdog, but your recommendation carries weight here, so investigations will be undertaken. And Shadoweyes has just been recommended by Historyman too, which means that I can hardly ignore its virtues.

      Thank you for popping back. I was hoping I hadn't seem abrupt and/or snotty. And thank you for the recommendations too :)

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  6. That's not just ideologically screwed, it's also a terribly banal take on Gordon in Earth One.

    It's particularly galling that it is coming out at the same time as the latest Batman movie, in which Gary Oldman plays an incredibly appealing Jim Gordon. He's an inspiring, brave and thoughtful man in the movies, so why can't he be like that in the comics?

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    1. Hello Bob:- I couldn't agree more. Put aside the politics of it all and it's still a terrible take on Gordon. It's a comic that wants to have its cake and eat it. It wants a vigilante Gordon and yet it wants us to admire and like him. It's just ... the sign of a writer who seems to given up trying, or so it seems.

      And yet, perhaps GJ just has a clear idea of what his audience wants and he's shoveling it out there. Why guild the lily if the lily's shifting units?

      I've not seen the latest Dark Knight, but I do take on board your point. More worrying than a lack of understanding of how to tap into the film's market, which is worrying enough, is the idea that GJ means THIS Gordon to be "inspiring, brave and thoughtful".

      And I think he does. It'd be hard to grasp why anyone who portray a major player in such a book as a hero if he didn't regard his behaviour as admirable ...

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    2. Cory Rushton19 July 2012 23:53

      I don't really have a problem with the portrayal of Bullock, because he's always been this character: he's a recognizable Harvey, even as he was written late in Gotham Central.

      The real problem, as I think you're noting, is that this is an unrecognizable Jim Gordon. This is not the Jim Gordon that reined himself in during the events of The Killing Joke, or the Jim Gordon who has given his life to Gotham and kept his moral centre in the face of actual madness.

      This Gordon ("Gordon to the EXTREME!!!") is blatantly there to justify an unthinking acceptance of violence as the only solution to a problem, of violence as the only marker of masculinity. I'm a medievalist professionally, and medieval romance was (sadly) better at asking questions about ethics/violence than the modern superhero comic.

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    3. Hello Cory:- "This Gordon ("Gordon to the EXTREME!!!") is blatantly there to justify an unthinking acceptance of violence as the only solution to a problem, of violence as the only marker of masculinity."

      Absolutely. It's a terrifying - I use the word deliberately - stupid-headed business. Either we believe that Johns knows nothing of how storytelling works, which is surely doubtful, or we assume that he either doesn't care about such issues or, most worrying at all, consider that he really might believe in the politics which BEO expresses. At least the last option would make BEO a sincere expression of principle, although from where I'm sitting, those are entirely wretched politics. But the first option would be a pitiful business, and the second a contemptible one.

      The "for how much longer must we throw this filth at our kids" headline was always one which made my eyes roll. And of course, comics are hardly just the province of children. But it is shocking to me that work this ignorant and unpleasant can be pumped out into marketplace in the 21st century. Of course, we know that the passing of time and the accumulation of knowledge & experience in no way guarantees that a culture will become any smarter than it was before. But the evidence of such is always a depressing business. BEO would sit quite comfortably next to the revenge fantasies of the 70s such as Death Wish, for example. As indeed could so much of our culture ...

      "I'm a medievalist professionally, and medieval romance was (sadly) better at asking questions about ethics/violence than the modern superhero comic."

      It's a fascinating and entirely sobering point. It certainly makes me grateful for the Cornells and Simones and Gillens etc who do engage with the moral contradictions of the form.

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  7. I'm mildly surprised that the only connection you've made to Superman: Earth One is in the tags, considering its equally baffling ethical values. What a curious similarity! Is the novelty required in a reinvention driving these authors to such unpleasantness? Or perhaps it's the need to fill pages that brings it out (or perhaps it was always there, simply obscured when delivered in quick twenty-two page monthly hits).


    Alas, my excessive reading of comics has driven me to an exhausted, smirking nihilism -- I was barely able to muster more than an amused and disappointed grunt when I came across the Noble Torture Sequence. What really shocked me about this text was its aggressive mediocrity: it's Batman Begins without the grandeur; Batman: Year One without the poetry.

    I can easily imagine Batman: Earth One appearing as a low-budget series on network television. I can also imagine changing the channel if it did.

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    1. Hello Jacob:- Good question about the abysmal Superman Earth One. I really did want to keep the length of this piece down, which meant leaving out everything that wasn't connected directly to BEO's "torture-porn". I had a good stab at criticising Spider-Man for a similar matter about 6 weeks ago and I thought that anything other than a relatively brief piece would be too much. And although I don't know if you know it, but I did write about SEO at ridiculous length back in 2010, so again, I thought I might leave that to one side.

      But I was tempted!

      I agree entirely with you about the like-it-or-lump mediocrity of BEO. It just staggers me how little care was taken with the script in particular. It's something which I intend to return too, because it's a fascinating example of truly careless work.

      Yes, the low-budget-TV idea really does sum the book. In fact, it sounds suspiciously believable as an idea. I wonder if GJ adapted a pre-existing scheme to get a Bat-TV show up and running?

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    2. Your SEO epic is what led me to your blog in the first place, actually. Which is why I'm honestly a little excited about SEO Volume 2 arriving in November....

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    3. Hello Jacob:- November's SEO 2 lurks like a great white whale ...

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    4. superman earth one vol:2 is not the only thing that is being released in November http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/07/16/idw-judge-dredd-creative-team/

      Delete
    5. Hello H:- The good Grud taketh awayeth, and then the good Grud giveth ...

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  8. My first thought upon reading the above was nausea. My second one is more interesting:

    One of the single most defining moments of The Joker in modern comics is when he beats up a defenseless man with a crowbar, euphorically enjoying it all the way. This Jim Gordon needs greasepaint.

    J. Martin

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    1. Hello J:- "This Jim Gordon needs greasepaint". True, he does. He's clearly a deeply inadequate and unpleasant man, and according to the conventions of the superbook, he needs to be placed in a costume and given a code-name.

      That's a fascinating issue you make. Thank you.

      (And "nausea" was my response too.)

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  9. I think this kind of thing is what's put me off Batman stories for so many years now. There's this obsession with making Gotham the Hell-city of Dis, populated only with the worst of humanity doing awful things to even more awful people, and the only thing that seems to move the needle one way or the other in this white-noise unpleasantness is that one of the bastards doing awful thing to the other bastards is wearing tights.

    I'm sure there's a way that one can write a "serious" story without coming off as adolescent as this does. But whether the reason they don't try to do this is either down to ignorance or apathy, they don't seem to know or care, do they?

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    1. Hello Kazekage:- I agree that there's a great many Bat-comics which have strayed into this territory. In that, TDKR was a watershed. Where BEO seems to me to be worst than most is in how brutally deliberate its worship of violence and machismo is. It's way out there beyond most Bat-books, which is REALLY saying something, isn't it?

      I share your bafflement when it comes to the motives of folks who churn out material like this. It's hard to think well of anyone who produces work that's this lazy, let alone this unpleasant.

      The Hell-City of Dis. I live in the East Of England, where there actually is a town called Dis. I find this to be a wonderful thing.

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    2. It is, and it seems to really damage one of the underlying elements of Batman, in that he's supposed to be symbol for the people of Gotham to be better. As it is now, BEO raises two questions in my mind, those being: 1. "So, does he just inspire people to beat the tar out of people?" and 2. "Who'd want to inspire these abhorrent creatures to any purpose?"

      Stories like this made the U.S. blowing up the bridges to Gotham and cutting it loose from the rest of the world completely seem like a sensible reaction, really.

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    3. Hello Kazekage:- I've always believed that the costumed vigilante tale is a way to discuss issues such as state power and individual responsibility. No matter how buried in the text, no matter how lightly done, that's the only justification for the vigilante tale.

      But BEO is either a stupid-headed exploitation rag or a rotten and reactionary political polemic.

      What kind of inspiration could this book possibly lend anyone? Beyond the reprehensible, obvious messages, of course.

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  10. Of course they need to torture the information out of him; writing actual detective work is hard, time consuming, would take more time to think of a clever clues, and probably consume more pages than are available. Why take the time doing that when a Batman GN with Johns and Frank's names on the cover will sell like hot cakes anyway?

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    1. Hello Joe:- You're quite right, of course. One of the things which is so infuriating where BEO is concerned is the laziness of it. It's real plotted-on-the-back-of-a-napkin stuff. Cliche follows cliche and there's not a trace a shame that the work is so thin and shallow. Gary Franks has undoubtedly worked at his contribution. I would never suggest anything else, although some of what he produced - such as the bat and bar scene above - is repellent. But Johns ... what the heck happened to Geoff Johns?

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    2. I couldn't tell you what happened to Johns as I've only been reading long enough to see his work as unnecessarily violent with dialog that's a little too on-the-nose.

      I was thinking earlier while driving around town and listening to some rap about how a lot of the rappers that I love whose best works were from the late 90s and early 00s that are still big names today seem to be coasting on their fame and going along with the trends instead of defining them as they used to do. Reading some of the comments from your blog made me see some of the same stuff seems to happen in the comic world.

      Busta Rhymes for example used to have some ballin tunes. Yeah, there was some ugliness in there as there is in a lot of rap music, but there's a lot of soul in there too. There's a whole range of human emotions from love to hate to distress to celebration. Now all I hear from him is party jam to party jam and I'm all partied out.

      With people that I still love, like the members of the Wu-Tang Clan, they rose to the top, continued to make great music and slowly fell to being well-regarded, but not as prominent on the charts as they once were.

      Excuse that tangent, but it seems like the same trend goes through comics. Johns and Bendis rise up making some great comics and then somewhere along the way they start coasting without a care to what they're actually saying. Meanwhile people like Ellis seemed to rise in popularity, kept doing his own thing and kept making, in my opinion, brilliant comics, but somewhere along the way seemed to fall out of popularity.

      Now, are these people doing in consciously? Maybe to some degree, but it's hard to imagine that they'd be that calculating on purpose. Maybe they're scared to take the chances they took that led them to the top? Maybe they ran out of the things they truly wanted to say at the exact moment they peaked and now they're just doing what they do because it's their job?

      At least that's my take on it. Maybe I'm just blowing smoke.

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    3. Hello Joe:- I suspect that these questions can only be answered on a case-by-case example. It's always been the case that success has proven poisonous to most of those folks who achieve it. Neil Tennant - of the Pet Shops Boys & a once-Marvel UK editor - says that success almost inevitably brings an "imperial phase" in which everything changes and previous constraints and drives fall apart. It was as true for the great funk, post-punk and prog bands of my youth as it's proven to be for each generation of hip-hop creators. Fitzgerald once referred to "the catastrophe of success", and yet I doubt there's many folks who rather avoid such a disaster! I always enjoying getting the chance to read the accounts of where and why the wheels come off in any creative endeavour, and I'm always amazed - and saddened - to note how many different reasons there can be for an artist losing their way. And of course, there's also those artists who never entirely loose it and often continue to hit the heights - Moore, Cohen - and those who never lost their way but were precieved to.

      By which I mean, all of your questions/suspicions would make interesting hypotheses. I suspect some folks run out of steam, interest or things to say. Others lack the technical knowledge to be able to match their original success, with the new approaches they bring becoming more widely used and leaving them with nothing distinctive to bring. Others seem to be chasing the market or being swallowed up by corporate culture. I'm sure an overlap of all those things would be accurate in some cases.

      But others, I'm sure, are just writing what they enjoy writing, and they're selling too! For example, Batman Earth One will, I'm sure, make a small fortune for all involved, as did the similarly reprehensible Superman Earth One.

      BEO will be praised, shift units, consolidate reputations, fill column inches; why would anyone not want those things, or seek them out? Pah and pah ...

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  11. Cory Rushton20 July 2012 14:19

    Participating in this conversation last night and waking up the news out of Denver this morning is ... neck-twisting. I am not blaming the Nolan film, because his trilogy has asked questions about violence and who has the right to wield it. But Batman Earth One (and something Avengers v X-Men) testifies to a newly-vigorous sense that violence isn't just an answer to our problems: it's the only answer. Comments on the Denver story at Newsarama and elsewhere are the usual calls for the gunman's own death, and the oft-expressed opinion that we need a Batman in real life. No, we don't. I always took the point of Batman to be that he was a necessary evil, even on the level of a man giving up his whole life to an endless and unwinnable war. Batman is a sign that society has failed. Maybe it has.

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    1. Hello Cory:- Yes. Agreed entirely. It's long been my belief that the superhero is at its best when used in part as a means to discuss both something that's wrong with society and the possible responses to it. No matter how well buried that is in the text, a super-book which involves vigilante action which doesn't operate in such a context in treading into dodgy ground.

      It may be that the creators of Batman Earth One are conscious of that context. Which would mean that the comic would represent beliefs on the party of Johns' that, as you say, violence of the most extreme and arbitrary kind is the only way forward where social problems such as crime & political corruption are concerned. If so, it's a simple-minded and dead-hearted mess. I don't believe it, I think he's a lazy and ethically disconnected writer rather than a far-right shoot-em-all merchant. But he writes as if he believes in such depressing principles.

      Or it may be that he doesn't believe that "Batman is a sign that SOCIETY has failed" and therefore needs doesn't care to represent the various social responses to whatever problems he's discussing. Although I suppose "might makes right" and "the entirely corrupt polity justifies any individual response" could be seen as social policies.

      But at the heart of BEO is a belief that nothing but violence works. There is no alternative, no compromise no form of society which can possibly function except that of Great Men acting as Mighty Vigilantes.

      Society has certainly failed to educate its citizens about what democracy is and how it functions. Mass media "entertainment" such as BEO only helps intensify the drip-drip-drip of ignorance and hatred which colours so much of 21st century discourse in the absence of a well-informed political culture.

      As you say, we don't need a Batman in real life. Gawd no. But a Batman in fiction who was a vehicle for smart, informed, humane tales; that we could do of more of.

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  12. Geoff Johns, Brian Michael Bendis, Dan Slott, JMS... it's almost as though the writers who reach the top of the superhero-fiction ladder either stop caring or become laughably reactionary.

    I have this horrible fear that Jonathan Hickman, whose non-super-comics of recent years are among my favourites, is about to write some *very* unpleasant Avengers/New Avengers stories when he takes over after AvX... (I'm sure I mentioned here previously that if his Ultimates run is anything to go by then there isn't a book less suited to his approach than the Avengers)

    Anyway, back on topic: another great article Colin, thanks. Mentioned above in the comments is an IGN article comparing BEO to TDKR and Year One - it seems almost as though the critics/community of today's superhero comics are so desperate for a contemporary super-masterpiece to rival the inexorably rising capeless comics that they'll proclaim almost any old guff that stars the right character as a masterpiece. Doubtless that's just me seeing patterns where there are none, but I still find myself taken aback by the number of critics who are wholly uncritical.

    Stan Lee has many revisionist detractors but if you compare the morality and honest righteousness of his work to the likes of Johns, Bendis, Slott, JMS, et al it's clear that he understood the superhero better than the current crop of 'top' writers do. I suppose this is a good (well, bad) a point as any for me to shamelessly plug my own blog on Lee/Moebius's 'Silver Surfer: Parable', a super-comic that's so fundamentally inseparable from its warm-hearted and earnest morality that it seems radical by today's standards:

    http://edinflames.wordpress.com/2012/07/20/silver-surfer-parable/

    p.s. I'm not sure if you've heard of it or not, and this is wholly unrelated to this subject but if you do another "reader's roulette" I'd like to suggest the phenomenal one-shot 'Wild Children' by Ales Kot & Riley Rossmo.

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    1. Hello Ed:- Firstly, thank you for the Reader's Roulette suggestion. It WILL be added to the list. Cheers :)

      Of the names you mention, I'll admit to a serious degree of disappointment with the quality of the work after "success" arrived. With Dan Slott, I'm appalled by the torture-Spidey story, but I think the quality of his work has remained strong. Whereas the other three chaps seem, from my point of view, to have lost their bearings. I'm sure they'd not agree with me, and, indeed, why should they?

      It's best not to comment too much on the IGN review from that site's editor. Everyone has their own take and their own ethical stance. But I'm glad it's there because it's an useful counter-point to what I've written, although of course many many more thousands of readers will read that than visit here. I'm staggered by what's written about - and not written about - in that review, but then my enthusiasm for Dc Presents #50 earlier this week would no doubt seem misplaced to some :)

      I enjoyed your Silver Surfer piece. I've been arguing that Stan's abilities are unfairly hammered in the blogosphere and I'm glad to stand beside folks - if you will - point out the quality as well as the problems of his work. It's been decades since I've read that book, but you've ensured that I'll be hunting it down. Thank you.

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    2. Thank you for the kinds words! If you're looking for all the strengths and weaknesses of Stan Lee's writing in one book the new hardcover edition of 'Silver Surfer: Parable' is a great resource - the backup story 'Silver Surfer and The Enslavers' is staggeringly poor in comparison with the main story it accompanies.

      You're in for a real treat with Wild Children (and I'll leave it at that).

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    3. Hello Ed:- Well, you've sold me. I've found an affordable copy of Wild Children which is on its way. I'm hedging on the Surfer collection simply because I'd far prefer to have a copy of the original. But given how expensive copies of that are, I guess I'll soon give way to expediency :)

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  13. This is a really interesting and thoughtful piece. Thank you.

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    1. Hello CCF:- Thank you :) That's generous of you to say so.

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  14. I can't help but think of the scene in (Marvel's) Avengers (Assemble) (Sigh) where the Black Widow uses torture to extract info from a baddie.

    Of course, in that case she was the one being tortured, and the information was extracted by being smarter than the thugs. Because, y'know, torture is something baddies do.

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    1. Hello Mark:- I suppose it must be something else when the good guys'n'gals do it. We should have a new word; goodture, perhaps, or nobleture.

      I think "nobleture" would fit the agenda :-(

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  15. Colin,
    Predictably great stuff Mr S, it's a wonder to see you so righteously riled! However, it is a poor show that there's so much of this fricking thoughtless, morally imbecilic, torture-happy garbage (or should that be *shit*, yes, crude as it may be, shit seems an apposite description) around that you have to keep pressing home these points. I suppose you might feel compelled to apologise for bringing this subject up on your again but *don't*! It makes me so angry/dismayed that lessons aren't being learned, it is so vert important that your voice and that of others rings out to say that this vileness should not, *must npt* be tolerated for the sake of simple decency. As for the moral cowards who would doubtless say that sometimes "you gotta do what you gotta do" or "hey, it's just entertainment", well, the vvery fact that we have long since reached the point where torture is something that's just thrown into certain narratives as if it's nothing should chill your bones, and if it doesn't then something is *very wrong*. As you have pointed out, Colin, even if one is to take the position that torture should be a basic part of any none-psychopath's toolbox it *doesn't f**king work! It,s nothing short of horrific that some people in the "real world" are fune with use of something that is not only monstrous but also *ineffective* as well is pretty insane (I wanted to write *evil*), to see this morally warped worldview infecting comic books without any sense of moral questioning but insted a "torture - F**k Yeah!" attitude is frankly sick and disgusting. I'm sorry for the righteous fury there, Colin, but this is important, you are saying what ought to be said. If anyone who might otherwise have torture as a thoughtless and morally bankrupt seasoning in their stories has their mind changef then you have performed a great service but even if you've "merely" pointed out the appalling lack of judgment in this particular piece then that too is a fine accomplishment. If writers want to do a(nother) "realistic and gritty" take on Batman they have to show knowledge of what teality *is* rather than spewing out thoughtless macho crap. And enough with the serial killers ya maroons!
    Regards, Robert

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    1. Hello Robert:- I did feel that I shouldn't be bringing up the topic again, which is why I tried to (a) keep the piece relatively short and (b) change its tone from the last post on the subject. I wasn't expecting to write anything at all on the subject, because I'd no idea that Batman Earth One would have any of this content at all. Having written about Superman Earth One, I was curious about the graphic novel and, in truth, I was hoping that it'd give me something positive to say about Geoff Johns' work in 2012. And so, the book turned up and there it was. To not write about it would've been to avoid the issue. In the end, it's just a post on a very little-league blog, but there are a few folks who pop in on occasion here, and I'd rather not have them rolling their eyes at me with that particular bee-filled-bonnet.

      I can only agree with you about grim'n'gritty and those *&1$ serial killers. But then, I guess that's obvious. Thanks for the kind words :)

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  16. First, impulsive thought: that's Harvey Bullock? Between him and Amanda Waller, can the day where every DC character is an identical-looking clone of each other be far behind?

    (And yes, I realize that one could very well argue that this is already the case, and I'm in no real position to disagree...)

    I wonder, Colin...have you read Brubaker and Rucka's Gotham Central? I spent the last two days rereading the entire run and going over stuff I missed the first time (which turned out to be most of it) and it is superlative--easily a top contender for the best DCU book of that decade. Reading it, I was reminded of what you've written about Ostrander's Suicide Squad and its ability to use continuity, something this book (and its spiritual successor, Rucka's Checkmate, share). In fact, the sudden reversal of the GCPD to what it was in the days of Gordon and Bullock in the wake of Infinite Crisis was one of the larger clues that I'd lost faith in the DCU's direction.

    In any case, part of the reason why I bring it up is because one of its major themes are the consequences of police corruption, particularly when it comes to police brutality. Harvey Bullock tortures someone there too, but it's shown as the actions of a pathetic person who has lost all claim to the moral high ground, whose actions do nothing but harm himself and strengthen the tortured person. Reneé Montoya's arc, in fact, is largely about how her growing comfort with police brutality has cheapened her soul. If you haven't read it, you really should; I feel you'll find it a refreshing antidote to the moral bankruptcy shown here.

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    1. Hello Ian:- I don't think super-books, or at least the New 52, believes that its readers want to read about people who aren't either physically perfect or genre-mutated. But folks who are over-weight; well, it seems that the target audience don't want fat characters. I think DC under-estimates its readers, to say the least, or, they've targeted a niche so particular that it can only cope with the narrowest of representations.

      I have read several books of Gotham Central, and it's a tale I'm warming to more as time passes. I struggle with the size of the cast, to be honest, and the comic-book can't lend that many characters the liveliness and distinctiveness that, to go back to same example, the Wire can. But given that, it is indeed a smart and enjoyable comic. I look forward to coming across a few more collections that I can afford to take me through the series to the end. I can certainly see why you would draw that comparison with the 80s Suicide Squad; they do both, according the comics culture of their age, use continuity to tell stories. Admirable stuff.

      And you've most certainly reminded me of Harvey's sins in GCPD. Even though I haven't read the collected editions, and am therefore relying on long-ago-laid-down memories of the monthlies as they came out, I recall the end of that arc with some considerable emotion.

      Gosh. I had forgotten that. What an appropriate and telling comparison to make. I wish I'd done so! 110 points to your good self :)

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    2. Thank you for the compliment. In return, let me assure you that I much enjoy your blog, in case that wasn't obvious. :)

      I agree with you about the book's cast; I struggled with it the first time around, partly because of the format--you had a month to forget about characters and plot points between issues--and partly because books about non-costumed people almost demand one consistent artist in order to keep characters straight--Rucka's Queen and Country, despite a much smaller cast, also gives me problems for that same reason, even with Dramatis Personae. Reading it in one sitting, on the makes things much more manageable; upon doing so, I was surprised to discover just how important Corrigan was to the book, especially since my first time with the book, all I remembered about him was that 1) he existed, and 2) he had the same name as The Spectre.

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    3. Hello Ian:- Thank you! That's very kind of you to say that of the blog.

      I suspect that the best way to experience GCPD would be in one sitting, or at least, from beginning to end in a short period of time. And I think that probably points to why the book, for all its excellence, struggled to make it commercially. As you point out, it's a tough book to follow, and that's particularly so for neophytes.

      Yet I am, of course, extremely pleased that the comic was produced. And the way that we old Spectre fans were presented with that damn Corrigan bloke ... smart stuff.

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  17. I thought I couldn't be caught offguard by this kind of thing anymore, but then I saw the picture at the top of this article.

    "That... that's Jim Gordon wielding a crowbar, isn't it? *Sigh* God dammit, what the hell are you people doing?!"

    I mean, has it really come to this? Jim Gordon, who across every take on the Batman cast of characters for the last three decades or so, from Miller to Nolan and everyone in between, has always been the one good cop, the moral center of the city who already feels compromised simply by having to accept that Batman might be necessary, is now a crowbar wielding, "Walking Tall"-esque Buford Pusser?

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    1. Hello Adam:- I didn't think that I could be AS appalled as I was by the whole Gordon sub-plot in BEO. It's either reactionary BS or it's astonishing ignorance. And that glee and loathing on the picture?

      It's just ... pathetic, and despicable. There are great stories to be told about pOlice who are driven to such savagery, just as there are tales to be told about the consequences of the same. But this is just a glorification of brutality, of torture.

      Yes, it really has come to this. And you know how many reviews I found on the net which even mentioned the violence in BEO in an moral context?

      Perhaps I missed the ones that did. A few folks that I read mentioned the unpleasantness of the violence, but the idea that a political taboo was being violated, that an absolute cornerstone of civil society was being attacked?

      Naw.

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    2. "It's just ... pathetic, and despicable. There are great stories to be told about pOlice who are driven to such savagery, just as there are tales to be told about the consequences of the same. But this is just a glorification of brutality, of torture."

      I agree, one hundred percent. Two of my favorite shows ever made are "The Shield" and "Homicide: Life on the Street" (David Simon's pre- "The Wire" show about Baltimore cops; ahead of its time, that one was). "The Shield" is all about police brutality and law-breaking in the name of expediency, and as compelling a character as Vic Mackey is and as (sometimes amazingly) likable Michael Chicklis is in the role, the finale of the show is all about how he and his cohorts lose everything and are driven further and further away from decency and their own mission statement. And "Homicide" had an entirely believable and compelling story-arc about a good, decent cop broken down and driven to the point that he cold-bloodedly executes a drug lord. All compelling stuff, all aware of how even good and/or well-intentioned people (who may not actually be so good) can cross the line, but neither of them actually ever forgetting that a line has been crossed.

      "Yes, it really has come to this. And you know how many reviews I found on the net which even mentioned the violence in BEO in an moral context?

      Perhaps I missed the ones that did. A few folks that I read mentioned the unpleasantness of the violence, but the idea that a political taboo was being violated, that an absolute cornerstone of civil society was being attacked?

      Naw."

      I'm not that surprised. A lot of fans don't want to think that hard about it and get upset when is suggested that they engage with the work beyond "Batman guud, big fan moments guud!", others are quite comfortable putting super-hero comic violence in its own context, outside of real-world implications; the former is asinine, while the second I feel has some justification for some superhero works, but is dangerously apathetic or lazy when the text goes so far into celebrating the virtues of Noble Thuggery as this one does.

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    3. Hello Adam:- You're quite right, the Shield is a prime example of a text that deals with this situation rather than glorifying in it. I've only seen the first series, but I fully intend to keep on watching. I never thought I'd say it, being as I remember the pre-2000 days, but there's just too much good and even great TV to keep up with. Why, I'm only at episode 5.8 of the Wire, although that's a series I'll be sadly though by this afternoon. (So, Homicide is very much on my radar!)

      I agree entirely on the matter of violence in comics. A kneejerk association of violence with the end of civilisation in the context of the superbook would be ridiculous. By the same token, as you say, there are texts which are simply - and whether by chance or design - celebrations of torture, or to use your own words, "noble thuggery".

      A culture which doesn't notice these things is a culture that's in serious trouble. But then, I guess that's hardly news, is it?

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  18. What a depressing spectacle, and a characteristically thoughtful analysis, Colin. This thug not only abandons the core values that "James Gordon" has typically exemplified, he upends the the whole moral logic of the Batman story.

    In most modern presentations, from Year One to Batman Begins, the GCPD's failure to control crime is not a result of bureaucracy or procedural rigor tying their hands. Rather, the appointed guardians of law and order are corrupt, and even complicit in Gotham's perpetual crime wave. The curse of Gotham is not excessive legalism but official lawlessness.

    What makes Gordon different is that he stands for the law even in the midst of the rot that has overtaken his department. Even in the face of hostile and suspicious colleagues, he doesn't take bribes or enable the predators--with or without badges. Only this fundamental rectitude leads Batman to trust Gordon. Gordon is the one who stays true to his values no matter what. And it is also what allows Gordon to trust Batman. He sees that the democratically accountable system he serves has been so thoroughly subverted that abetting the Batman is a lesser sin than letting the debauchery of the GCPD continue unhindered.

    For Gordon to indulge his worst impulses-- to abandon the cause of law for the seedier gratification of vengeance--makes police lawlessness heroic, when it was formerly the the very justification for Batman's existence. And any Batman worthy of respect would be pursuing such a cop, not joining forces with him.

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    1. Hello Simon:- Thank you for your generous words. In turn, I very enjoyed your analysis of the way in which the GCPD has been presented since Year 1. While there's undoubtedly a host of troubles afflicting Gotham's police and their ability to do their job, the fact that there's corruption great and small has indeed often been emphasised. It's something which, as you say, Gordon's role in YearOne emphasises right from the off, with its hint that Jimmy hasn't always managed to keep his nose entirely clean. The cost of such transgressions, the long journey back from them, the value of the process; these are some of the some compelling aspects of his story.

      I particularly like your reading of why Gordon turns to Btaman. Not just because he can do things which the pOlice can't, but because he isn't corrupt or corruptible. Not perfect, but better than the alternatives. The lesser sin.

      I'm afraid that neither the Bruce of BEO or the Gordon seem to be very bright, brave or decent at all. None of them seem worthy of respect at all, which seems a shocking way to try to sell the caped crusader to a new audience.

      Sometimes I don't think DC has the highest opinion of its audience ...

      Thanks for your words. They're thought-provoking, to say the least.

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  19. Harvey has shrunk...

    If you didn't have Gordon there and Axe wasn't already set up as a baddie, the first thought would be: this is the GCPD being corrupt. That's the usual backstory, there were/are corrupt and nasty and that's why crime runs amok, they don't care about it/are paid off. This change is not only ethically dodgy, it clashes with decades of older stories* and undermines the reason Gotham allegedly needs a Batman. After all, if it just takes heroic violence, what's Batman needed for when you can have Man With Bat?

    * Including the current films, so how does this work as a "Earth One" then?

    - Charles RB

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    1. Hello Charles:- I struggle to disagree with a word you've written.

      What a shame that the scene works as a celebration the pOlice finding their manhood. And yes, that's a fine point. If heroic violence is all that's needed, then the GCPD by the very fact of their numbers would be able to dish it out more than Bats ever could.

      The "Earth One" label seems like such a daft one. It suggests that these are the ur-texts, the basic form of these superheroes which superhero neophytes ought to first turn to. In fact, they've been nothing but rather expensive Rump-bait. They read as if someone said "We want to hook arrogant adolescent boys who have a great many revenge fantasies, a deep sense of superiority, an obsession with violence, and lashings of self-pity."

      Crap, in other words.

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