tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post5293708450011113315..comments2024-02-22T02:31:34.108+00:00Comments on Too Busy Thinking About My Comics: On Kid Loki's Drowning Without Even The Privilege Of Waving: Some Rainy Saturday Afternoon Thoughts On "Journey Into Mystery" #645Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-11310118734929764072012-11-13T10:26:26.421+00:002012-11-13T10:26:26.421+00:00Hello Lorrie:- I do know what you saying about wan...Hello Lorrie:- I do know what you saying about wanting closure in your fiction, and closure that's determined by the creator's choices rather than a whole series of possible corporate-sanctioned decisions. I also share something - a considerable degree of something - of your feelings about the Big Two's current Jumping Off choices. An irony, that both companies are so anxious about providing readers with an "in" that they sometimes forget that they can be doing the opposite too. The New 52, for example, certainly attracted a very specific audience to DC's books. Whether it needed to do so in a way that also aliented readers from beyond that niche ... I don't think so.<br /><br />I'm up for Young Avengers, but that's because I'm starting from a different point to you. When JIM kicked off, I was exceptionally disillusioned by the super-book and lacked the slightest interest in what seemed to be just another short-term, look-at-me change. I've not shaken that disillusionment! But having seen Gillen and the Thor Office win me over despite my almost total lack of interest, I'm curious to see how KG and JM are going to deal with the very problems you're mentioning. One of my few fascinations left with the super-book is to see how folks cope with these very problems of endings and so on. When - as with Waid's Daredevil and JIM - creators make me care as well as displaying the technical skills to cope with the limitations of the Big Two books .... well, I feel that it'll be fun to see where they go next.<br /><br />I also share your feeling that KL could be returned to the MU. The key is whether it could be done in a way that didn't undermine the last scene in JIM, and of course all that led to it. But I can't see HOW that could be done. The rebirth of Bucky shows that "impossible" returns can be acheived. But in this case, I suspect that "impossible" means just that.<br /><br />Long-term consequences? You're right. That's why the majority by far of what I read is beyond the superhero book. I come to the immersive superhero universes for things which I can't get elsewhere; the spectactor sport of seeing creators wrestle with immense limitations and sometimes overcoming them, the company of well-loved characters ...<br /><br />But I can see how the whole process can become wearing. I've largely dropped out myself before, and if not for the fact that I review this stuff, I think I'd be mostly dropped out now :) Of course, I'd've missed out books such as JIM and Secret Six if I'd stayed out of the loop. To stay or not to stay?<br /><br />Good luck with where you go next with your reading. Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-56149507903307651302012-11-13T09:40:44.344+00:002012-11-13T09:40:44.344+00:00Hello Andrew:- The first JIM trade is the one to g...Hello Andrew:- The first JIM trade is the one to go for. I know that sounds obvious, and it is, but there's always a temptation to jump into the middle of a sequence, and each volume makes perfect sense on its own. But the Fear Itself volume - at least the HB - has some really useful extra features. Some history, some interviews; it's good stuff.<br /><br />Tom Ewing's post was splendid stuff, wasn't it? I couldn't not link to it :) To be honest, and I know it'll have been obvious, but the above was my attempt to work through three aspects of JIM which I wanted in my own writer's locker. Even that never-getting-out-of-the-drawer stuff can be improved a touch through the, er, appropriation of a real writer's skills :)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-67705500979847338532012-11-13T05:13:02.992+00:002012-11-13T05:13:02.992+00:00Strangely, since I loved Gillen's JIM, I think...Strangely, since I loved Gillen's JIM, I think the ending of #645 finally has cured me of reading mainstream Big Two superhero comics. Gillen broke my heart, but that's not why. It's because JIM #645 was an ending, but it's never really an ending in a shared universe. If a writer is going to break my heart, I'd rather it be creator-owned so that when the story is over, it's really over, and I don't have to put up with only the illusion of change. With so many Marvel titles relaunching (and having already said goodbye to the mainstream DC comics), it seems like a good time to let go.<br /><br />After my initial excitement, I've decided not to read Young Avengers. The story is finished for me, and I have no desire to read about the Loki that remains (he's basically a Buffyverse vampire, wearing the face of the person he killed). Plus, why get attached to other young characters that will be killed off in a sick Hunger Games copy if Marvel thinks it will make money? <br /><br />If I'm absolutely honest, I still want to have hope for Kid Loki, which makes it worse in a way. He had a beautifully written good death, but if there was ever a comic book death I didn't want to stick, it's this one. While it's true that if Kid Loki never returns he'll be forever preserved as a hero who never had that heel turn we all feared he would, but I'd still rather he return. I see no reason why the resurrection couldn't be earned, especially considering the magical nature of the character and because I'm not sure I understand the exact nature of what happened in that last scene. <br /><br />I suspect Gillen killed Kid Loki at least in part because he knew eventually Marvel would want the old, evil adult Loki back in time for the movie (and because only the illusion of change is allowed), and he'd rather end the character on his terms. I understand, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Sadly, I don't really expect Kid Loki to return, new/old Loki will be villainous again after a period of ambiguity, and the Kid Loki story will just be a fondly-remembered run that had no long-term consequences on the MU.Lorriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16799438375116101818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-83401469646628539862012-11-13T02:41:24.924+00:002012-11-13T02:41:24.924+00:00I'm in the same boat. Didn't read much of ...I'm in the same boat. Didn't read much of Journey Into Mystery, but I'll be eying the trades. Between this and Mr. Ewing's wonderful analysis, I am won over to Kid Loki.Andrew Taylorhttp://leftinflyovercountry.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-55291486035487985032012-11-12T21:50:45.518+00:002012-11-12T21:50:45.518+00:00Hello Sally:- I guess it makes sense for a GL fan ...Hello Sally:- I guess it makes sense for a GL fan to have cut her teeth of Thor. Neil Gaiman always said that GL was really Arthur and the Knights Of The Round Table, and Thor similarly - and of course obviously - is grounded in myth. <br /><br />I too fear that we may not see a book like this again. Which is rather unfair on Mr G, of course, who has Young Avengers waiting in the traps - with HORRID LOKI in it - as well as Iron Man just issued. I guess it's hard to imagine anyone getting lightning to strike twice, and yet, it was hard to imagine it happening once.<br /><br />I also think it's rather touching that Thor was your "very first Comic Book love", and yet its LOKI'S passing that's so touched so. That's good stuff, isn't it, to turn all those old fondnesses on their head?Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-42888015269268435862012-11-12T21:46:40.369+00:002012-11-12T21:46:40.369+00:00Hello Thomaz:- I can't help but play devil'...Hello Thomaz:- I can't help but play devil's advocate here. KG's proven something of a master of engaging his readers in games of double and triple bluff. What if he's slowly intending Kid Loki to remerge in Young Avengers, as either as the self-knowledge which fires Loki's shrivelled conscience or even as an alt-personality of some kind. For KL to haunt L would seem to me to be a perfectly legitimate development of the story.<br /><br />Naw, I'm not suggesting there's the slightest possibility. But there are ways in which the character, or at least his experience, could be kept alive. Problem is, that would mean undercutting that death scene. <br /><br />Comics are full of characters who've been given brilliant death scenes and then destructively been brought back to life. Warlock and Thanos come to mind immediately, each given a perfect end in Starlin's MTIO/Avengers Annual crossover, each brought back - by Mr Starlin himself? - a few years later.<br /><br />Still, I didn't believe that KL could be made to work, let alone so well. I don't believe that he could be brought back. If that trick could be worked .....<br /><br />But no, I'd rather it wasn't attempted. Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-53935674466348793412012-11-12T21:27:53.823+00:002012-11-12T21:27:53.823+00:00Journey Into Mystery has been my favorite Marvel b...Journey Into Mystery has been my favorite Marvel book of late, solely because of Loki, although I have to admit that Thor was my very first Comic Book love, way back when I was about 15 or so. And right up to that last page, I was hoping...HOPING that somehow it would all have a happy ending. Because I am a hopeless sap for happy endings.<br /><br />But still WHAT an ending! And dagnabit I STILL have hope...somehow. But this was a helluva book, and I fear we will not see its like again any time soon.SallyPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05592635194271250605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-47241636045765320592012-11-12T17:12:44.015+00:002012-11-12T17:12:44.015+00:00Hy Colin^^ Oh, no, it would be a shame if someone ...Hy Colin^^ Oh, no, it would be a shame if someone reversed Kid Loki's death... As much as it could be a delight to read another story with him, it would be cheating and the character would loose that existential appeal that you've stressed above... We all are trapped in life and we all can't run from death... Also, Kid Loki is kind of a meta-martyr...as long as the comics market doesn't change anything new has to vanish, not only die, but be engulfed by the same and desapear ( as we have seen before with Morrison's x-Men, Kirby's new Gods, Englehart's Dr strange...)<br />If someone made undone what Kid Loki had to deal with so desperately, and yet so bravely, all emotional weight of his tale would collapse. And I believe we all would be allowed to get mad about it =pperfil limitado do bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14755425480599864818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-31674277018424166682012-11-12T12:45:35.425+00:002012-11-12T12:45:35.425+00:00Hello Thomaz:- well, given your chosen academic di...Hello Thomaz:- well, given your chosen academic discipline, Animal Man and the fourth wall would seem to be right up your street. But as you say, there's a sense in which JIM may well prove to be a more immediate call on your time. <br /><br />While I'd never in any way suggest that the meta aspect of KL and his fate is both important and successful, I find the existential aspects of his journey and fate even more compelling. And disturbing. As you say, it's impossible to think of the conclusion without feeling "really sad".<br /><br />It's an odd thing to realise that I wouldn't want Kid Loki's death reversed despite how much I wish the character hadn't died. It's been a particularly unexpected journey; I'm not used to the super-book working this well, and doing so with material which originally seemed so unpromising.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-28001453934523493682012-11-12T12:01:42.473+00:002012-11-12T12:01:42.473+00:00I've been trying to write something about the ...I've been trying to write something about the psychological meaning of the fourth-wall breaking on animal man for some time... but Gillen seems to have risen the game to another level. 'Cause the path his Journey into Mystery have taken is so bold and brilliant that it not only works as a reflection about fiction and the meaning of the art itself, but also about the ongoing comics media and the public that consumes it. We all don't accept change... we all refuse to die. And thus Kid Loki seems even braver, his oblivion even more compelling... <br />If Gillen had only presented us a comic with the cerebral strengths enlisted above it would be already an amazing achievement. But the main strength of his Journey into Mystery to me is the fact that I can't remember JiM 645 without getting really sad. <br />And succeeding in create an emotional bond between character and audience and then showing us how much we are to blame on Kid Loki's death Gillen invites us to change and do our part too(almost twisting the the fifth wall, we could say) ...<br />In Myths death have been for thousand years a metaphor for change. In comics media, the resurrection 'though have been used as a tool for bring back the same again, and again, and again... is really nice to see a character twist this endless circle in something other than the same... Loki has to die and change... like everybody has. Farewell Kid Loki!! <br /> perfil limitado do bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14755425480599864818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-15707403726767538362012-11-12T08:25:42.410+00:002012-11-12T08:25:42.410+00:00Hello Charles:- Knowing the end will also allow yo...Hello Charles:- Knowing the end will also allow you to pick up on themes and foreshadowings which become all the more enjoyable and interesting when you know how it'll end. I was re-reading the Terrorism Myth last night and light-bulbs keep flashing on.<br /><br />Strangely enough, that ending is also counter-intuitively inspiring too. Kid Loki did his best and fought the power despite the fact that he himself was doomed. Well, we all are. That's the point, isn't it? He was a rather splendid lad when all was said and done. You should enjoy yourself in Journey-Into-Mystery-land :) Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-59114552106195338402012-11-12T08:18:35.218+00:002012-11-12T08:18:35.218+00:00Hello Peter:- I suspect that there have been many ...Hello Peter:- I suspect that there have been many thousands who've been inspired by Thor to go and check out the source material, and I can't help but think that's a measure of the comic's success in so many ways. It's not only a clearly worthwhile thing to inspire, but the act of comparing of what Marvel present with the various versions of the myths inevitably - forgive the appearance of my teacher self here - encourages a spot of analytical thinking. 'What's different' and 'why' are two questions which the appearance of the Kirby/Lee Hercules in the 70s Marvel UK one-tone reprints inspired in me, being that Ancient Greek rather than Norse mythology was my interest.<br /><br />For one of the first wave Marvel properties, Thor has seen remarkably few classic runs. Certainly that sense of doom, of fate playing with lives, is present only in the best of them, and in particular the Lee/Kirby and Simonson runs. I think JIM stands up well with those classic runs. (I know I need to investigate more of Matt Fraction's run on Thor, so it's absence from this answer isn't meant to carry any meaning in itself.) To say, as you do, that JIM is "the only book from Marvel and DC that I've gone out of my way to pick up in nearly 10 years" is the kind of statement which ought to be used in a marketing campaign :)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-59964598144642908972012-11-12T00:48:38.672+00:002012-11-12T00:48:38.672+00:00Basically, the entire internet is telling me I sho...Basically, the entire internet is telling me I should read this - and, much like The Wicker Man, knowing the twist ending <i>encourages</i> me to pick this up. Because that is a nasty, fourth-wall vapourising ending. <br /><br />- Charles RBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-14967837392188818072012-11-11T23:36:07.953+00:002012-11-11T23:36:07.953+00:00I've always had a soft sport for Loki and his ...I've always had a soft sport for Loki and his half brother. Thor was the first comic I read that lead me back to its insppiration or source material. It is interesting that the very best mateial has been that with at least one foot planted firmly in myth rather than superheroics. The doom that hangs over the entire cast gives them an epic and operatic stature that still oustrips all but the most mythic of superheroes. Gillen certainly understands that and for me his treatment of Kid Loki is a doom laden forshadowing of Ragnarok. It is the only book from Marvel and DC that I've gone out of my way to pick up in nearly 10 years. Faffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04446264944001513202noreply@blogger.com