tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post5401735046911805601..comments2024-02-22T02:31:34.108+00:00Comments on Too Busy Thinking About My Comics: On "Age Of Ultron: Book Two":- Irony-Art Superhero Comics For The Masses!Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-13329086845789464452013-05-14T07:36:22.129+01:002013-05-14T07:36:22.129+01:00Thank you, Mr O. I'm off to follow your lead n...Thank you, Mr O. I'm off to follow your lead now ... :)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-39667233527419775162013-05-13T20:44:00.369+01:002013-05-13T20:44:00.369+01:00Realized I never left the link here for the above-...Realized I never left the link here for the above-mentioned post: http://themiddlespaces.wordpress.com/2013/03/20/marvels-illuminati-responsible-for-both-jay-zs-success-and-the-infinity-gems/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-70578109797252283712013-03-24T22:17:40.985+00:002013-03-24T22:17:40.985+00:00Hello Mock:- I wonder when DC will start catering ...Hello Mock:- I wonder when DC will start catering to markets beyond those thrilled by skewering, death, crossovers and the like. Marvel seem to have grasped the opportunity to sell books to niches beyond the hardcore. But DC? At the moment, I hold out little hope for change.<br /><br />Still, it would be good to be proven wrong.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-67846159936906473072013-03-24T12:26:37.609+00:002013-03-24T12:26:37.609+00:00...sorry, I just want a team book with heroes....w......sorry, I just want a team book with heroes....where heroes act like heroes, have distinct voices, and consistent motivation....I want to recognize them from issue to issue and page to page...MOCK!https://www.blogger.com/profile/02854497329647596811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-62485179064985150082013-03-24T12:25:09.373+00:002013-03-24T12:25:09.373+00:00Is that "The Hood" in the silent page? I...Is that "The Hood" in the silent page? Is Bendis still trying to push him as a big deal. <br /><br /><br />I miss "The Avengers"....not "New", "Secret", "Dark", "Dissassembled!" or whatever....and I'm trying not to be grumpy old man here...I just want a MOCK!https://www.blogger.com/profile/02854497329647596811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-13715999696211107342013-03-21T17:43:31.316+00:002013-03-21T17:43:31.316+00:00Hello Sean:- I do apologise for not being able to ...Hello Sean:- I do apologise for not being able to answer your comment earlier. I fear that for some strange reason Blogger would let me publish comments but not reply to them. I hope I didn't seem rude.<br /><br />The idea of 10 issues of AOU is a dreadful one. These are hard times, and even if they weren't, comic book prices are hardly competitive when the pleasures of a DVD or a game are concerned. You'd think the industry would be working hard to rectify that, and of course some folks are. But AOU is so entirely complacent. But then, the hardcore reader WILL buy it, and money WILL be made. Why worry about doing the job better? Why worry about value for money?<br /><br />You are quite right to say that BMB'S used this method to far better ends before. I'd like to see if he changes style in AOU , and if the introduction begins to make more sense in the light of that. And yet, no matter what's coming, this has been a turgid start, as you rightly say.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-69987981110051772022013-03-21T01:55:22.608+00:002013-03-21T01:55:22.608+00:00I just borrowed this from a friend and I'm rea...I just borrowed this from a friend and I'm really thankful I did instead of paying for it. While I was willing to give the series the benefit of the doubt, and was pleasantly surprised that I enjoyed the first issue as much as I did in spite of its relative lack of content, this issue didn't do anything to further anything regarding the story and, as has been pointed out, ends on practically the same note. This event is supposed to run 10 issues long, but it already feels like it could have been told in probably less than half of that if Marvel weren't so intent on padding this as long as it possibly can.<br /><br />Bendis has used decompression with much more favourable results before, and has employed it in such a manner that still made every issue feel weighty or important enough that justified his approach, which is completely absent here; as far as I can tell, the only new bits of information we get is that Black Widow has facial scarring as everything else was pretty much outright stated or implied in the first issue. It feels like a waste of time, and a waste of Hitch's art, especially considering this is supposed to be his last Marvel project for at least the immediate futureAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14637331259405099861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-52626606217315504132013-03-20T09:04:14.180+00:002013-03-20T09:04:14.180+00:00Hello Osvaldo:- You're quite right to say that...Hello Osvaldo:- You're quite right to say that the problem isn't a method in general, but the way that it's put to use. There are plenty of fine decompressed comics, and many of those were written by Mr Bendis himself. It ain't, as Oliver and Young wrote, what you do, it's the way that you do it.<br /><br />Of course, as I was chin-stroking away to Harvey in the comments above, this isn't really a decompressed book. Given that it's so thin, and so entirely based on pointless repitition, it's moved into something else. Retro-decompression? Hyper-decompression? Ah, I'll think of a term when insomnia strikes and I've hours to stare at the ceiling ....Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-66339243280597491452013-03-20T08:54:21.328+00:002013-03-20T08:54:21.328+00:00Hello Harvey:- I would pay valid coin of the realm...Hello Harvey:- I would pay valid coin of the realm to read the results of such an interview with BMB, and I would pay more of it if you were running it. Your questions are exactly those which I'd love to know the answers to. <br /><br />I have absolutely no doubt that BMB believes that his work is well-wrought and fair exchange for his reader's pennies. The question, as you say, is why he believes that these methods are the best ones for his projects. Of course, there's a great many reinforcing factors which would convince any writer that their path is the right one; respect, income, sales, the attention of the media, students, access to positions of authority. In fact, put that way, the question is why would the likes of you and I ever dare to challenge such a litany of success. <br /><br />But the key isn't just that BMB's work is decompressed. It's actually such an extreme version of that that it becomes something else entirely. It's not so much decompressed as contentless. This isn't my opinion. It's not something I've invented. There's literally nothing new in this book beyond a few tiny beats.<br /><br />Are we therefore seeing the comicbook version of a heavy metal riff, blasted merciless out without variation in order to establish an oppresive mood? If so, it's a daft choice. This set-up is MASSIVELY familiar. We've seen it played over and over again since Days Of Future Past. In essence, we've ALREADY seen these conventions being repeated ad nauseam. To repeat this material is actually to emphasise its second-hand and unremarkable nature. No matter how innovative and moving the story may or may not become, this is more than 40 pages of thin, unimaginative storytelling. <br /><br />Could it be that this is simply the hardcore audience's basic fascinations being played back them in a form that's at once both diffuse and concentrated? Everything but the most basic, familiar aspects of the genre has been removed. All that's left is what we know incredibly well. A cynic could identify it as comfort food, with every shred of nutrition removed. All that remains is the likes of saturated fats, sugar and e-numbers, all mixed in to a tasteless blob.<br /><br />But I don't believe that's the intention. BMB is a dedicated craftsman and an enthusiast. As you say, this comic is an expression of his method. But what the %!&* can it possibly be? <br />Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-89981755339236458902013-03-19T19:02:47.929+00:002013-03-19T19:02:47.929+00:00What would be so very interesting is an extended i...What would be so very interesting is an extended interview with Bendis over a particular issue like this one, where he explains at length what his goals were. As Luke Carroll and you both point out, this approach is not accidental, nor is it sloppy. It was a deliberate choice to achieve particular ends. I would love to know what those ends were. Is the "Age of Ultron" #2 as we have it what he intended to produce, or is it a misfire by his standards? <br /><br />My guess is the obvious one: Bendis is focused on the idea of building emotional connections between reader and characters, and he believes it takes time and breathing space for that to happen. Also, slowing the pace increases the feeling of immersion, since you're seeing events unfold without having to abstract much between panels. <br /><br />He's probably going for a slow build, believing that the anticipation of the climax needs to be built over long spans of time. He also probably feels that the talking-head pages foster the desired emotional bonding, the kind of thing you don't get from a more action-filled story. Withhold to whet the appetite.<br /><br />But man, I'd love to hear BMB break it down himself, find out what he thinks. Is there something he's trying to do that we aren't seeing due to preconceptions? Or because he's not doing it well? Does he think this is a great comic? A good one? A passable one? Does he consider economic value for the reader when he writes, or the importance of single issues in the larger story? We all have our opinions based on his work, but I'd love to hear what the man himself would say.Harvey Jerkwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07118848012122050416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-78033070293984163492013-03-19T15:55:36.679+00:002013-03-19T15:55:36.679+00:00I was talking at length about this with a friend a...I was talking at length about this with a friend a few weeks ago. The problem is not decompression per se, but rhythm, or lack thereof.<br /><br />Writing and drawing good comic books requires a sense of rhythm, of short and long scenes, of panel placement. A decompressed set of panels can be incredibly effective to reinforce some plot point or pathos after a quickfire set of panels or events, for example.<br /><br />Similarly, as someone else above mentioned, a comic that is just a deluge of quickfire cuts and explosions and "money" scenes is terrible without a breather to absorb what is happening, to hopefully consider the deeper implications of what is going on in terms of characterization and setting (assuming those things exist).mr. oyolahttp://themiddlespaces.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-47460167608933219592013-03-19T07:04:23.502+00:002013-03-19T07:04:23.502+00:00Hello Andrew:- I read speculation yesterday that t...Hello Andrew:- I read speculation yesterday that the events of AOU don't occur on Marvel-Earth at all, but on an alt-Earth. If so, that would allow somebody to slip through to the MU and repeat, after a fashion, Kitty Pryde's function in Days Of Future Past. It's an interesting idea, but it would mean that a set-up that took 4 or 5 pages in DOFP would have taken more than 42 pages here. <br /><br />What does this have to do with Michael and yours' point about the lack of closure? Well, if AOU is set on another world, that means Marvel can eventually set another series there too! Not just a lack of closure in one dimension, but two!<br /><br />But no, that can't possibly happen. And good for it.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-88322937738058118832013-03-19T07:00:01.306+00:002013-03-19T07:00:01.306+00:00Hello Mike:- Oh, you're quite right about the ...Hello Mike:- Oh, you're quite right about the complexities of DOFP. Though my love for the X-Men disappears pretty quickly after Byrne's departure, the last year or so of his and Claremont's collaboration remains admirable material. To my mind, neither man has produced anything that can match their work together. And in DOFP, we get time-travel, political wrangling, the battle in the future with the Sentinels, the punchup with the Brotherhood in the present, significant character development for Kitty, and so on. AND it does so in a way which delivers some significant set-pieces too. How long would it have taken to deliver that story today? Years, I would suggest. And given the rewards - in terms of status, income, attention and so on - of producing hyper-decompressed work, why will anything change? Three cheers for all of those creators who don't subscribe to this approach, although with double-shipping becoming standard, it must be tough to fight the good fight. The demands to produce matched to the rewards for doing so must make it hard not to end up churning it out. Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-34927618562296825292013-03-19T06:52:25.815+00:002013-03-19T06:52:25.815+00:00Hello Luke:- I would entirely agree with you that ...Hello Luke:- I would entirely agree with you that this approach can only be the result of a sincere belief that it constitutes "good" storytelling. Mind you, Bryan Hitch didn't seem to feel that way in a recent interview in which he seemed to bemoan page after page after chit-chat. But I certainly don't think that BMB approached this comic cynically. If anything, it strikes me that the man's obvious enthusiasm, and the relatively splendid sales, may just blind him to the fact that there's literally no content here. <br /><br />Yet the same sales are only impressive in terms of the denuded market for comics. And there's no possibility to a breakout beyond the hardcore readers with work as "mind-numbingly dumb" - as you rightly say! - as this. It's the worst of all possible words. There's more than enough success to reinforce all involved in their behaviour, and yet the evidence is that this is a terrible cul-de-sac for all but the rump of the readership. In support of that, I only need fall back on the fact - not opinion, but fact - that nothing of consequences happened here, and that pretty much all that did was a repeat of the first issue's contents. <br /><br />Of course, as you describe, the opposite of hyper-decompression isn't by its essence "great" storytelling. Decompression can produce terrific comics - The Ultimates volume 1 and 2, for example - and content-heavy books can produce tedious pap, such as marked so much - if not all - of Marvel's work for the last fifteen or so years of the last century.<br /><br />But one advantage to the current system is that it increases the productivity of its writers. I have too high an opinion of BMB's abilities to believe that this was a story that was crafted through a series of days and drafts. If it had been, and if an editor had been shaping the product in a supportive way, then the absence of new developments would have been noticed. One terrific advantage of Bendisism is the opportunity it offers to really crank out the product. Slowing down to craft each issue in the way I'd prefer would surely impact on the man's productivity. That has to be the assumption on the part of outsiders, because the only other choice is that this was a book which took three or four days at least to craft. And I can't believe that. As I say, I think too highly of its writer to believe that. <br /><br />It IS bizarre, as you say, that this approach is associated with quality. It clearly can't be good for storytelling to have no development occurring on the page. It suits the industry, it's to the taste of the fans who've bought into this. And good for them. In art, there is no "right" etc etc. But the industry is fooling itself if it thinks that this will do anything other than delay the moment when it needs to reach out beyond the rump. <br /><br />But then, the strategy seems to mostly be that that's neither possible nor necessary. Small ponds can yield considerable rewards, after all. Thankfully, there are creators and editors who are trying other ways of doing things. And of course some of them are also involved in decompressed-pap too. It's anything other than a straight-forward situation, but at its heart is the fact that AOU is poor, lazy storytelling. Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-73063952136004400972013-03-19T03:15:20.531+00:002013-03-19T03:15:20.531+00:00What I really don't understand is that this de...What I really don't understand is that this decompression isn't even necessarily the easy way out for a creative team. That is to say, the very opposite - compression - requires no skill either. You could write an issue which sloppily and incomprehensibly covers 2000 years of plot, with events coming so thick and fast it's like standing at the foot of a syrupy tsunami of words. It could be completely terrible and pointless, every bit as AoU is, and it would be just as easy to do. In fact, it's probably the very thing you'd get if you asked a child to write a comic book story.<br /><br />The content could be nonsense, Iron Man plays basketball against Miami Heat, Spider-man fights Mark Zuckerberg for true ownership of Facebook, Captain America appears in a very hypocritical anti-doping campaign for the next Olympics. It would require no skill, no imagination, just "things". It wouldn't even require more art - more lines or "ink", as it were - since it's not as if AoU is light on those things, it just puts them to no real purpose.<br /><br />But they don't do that. They just stretch out a mind-numbingly vast non-event to breaking point. It leads me to believe that it's not done out of laziness or cynicism per se, they do actually seem to think this is a good way to tell stories. If you tasked someone truly incompetent at storytelling to write a Big Event in comics, it's doubtful they would decompress things. You wouldn't get 10 issues of Iron Man trying to remember which issue of Stuff magazine had that nice article on the Google Nexus but in the end he's distracted because his car alarm goes off. It's odd, because many of the arguably bad things about modern comics stem from the medium's desire to be cinematic - almost like a collage of stills from a Hollywood blockbuster - but one thing you generally can't accuse such films of doing is decompression; they pack themselves to the gills with events, exposition and big character moments.<br /><br />So, long story short (an apt figure of speech for this topic) I can only think that this is genuinely done with the best of intentions, and the high sales reinforce their bizarre belief that their methods are leading to quality.LWChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09020170806341656790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-26686133915476329632013-03-19T00:25:42.412+00:002013-03-19T00:25:42.412+00:00Half of Days of Future Past took place in the (the...Half of Days of Future Past took place in the (then-) present. Claremont & Byrne used about 1 regular-sized comic worth of pages to tell the future part of the story.<br /><br />I think fans are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, as Ed pointed out. More worrying, the writer & editor don't have to put any more content in because the event will sell enough. I'll spend my dollars on something with more and better content, thank you.<br /><br />- Mike LoughlinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-32293467995970679032013-03-18T22:47:54.483+00:002013-03-18T22:47:54.483+00:00Michael, you do have a point there. Can't beli...Michael, you do have a point there. Can't believe I forgot that a Bendis crossover can't actually conclude. #10 also doesn't quite work because it would take at least a second panel to portray all the action, and the motif only works if it's a splash page that concludes each issue.<br /><br />Perhaps a better fit would be "Ultron finds out he was stiffed...and swears vengeance!" Fred Hembeck is still working, right?Andrew Taylorhttp://leftinflyovercountry.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-53179185004167284262013-03-18T21:34:00.303+00:002013-03-18T21:34:00.303+00:00Hello Michael:- I was thinking just a moment ago a...Hello Michael:- I was thinking just a moment ago about the differences between Days Of Future Past and a typical BMB maxi-series. I'd be astonished if AOU managed a conclusion that's anywhere near as effective as that of DOFP. (It was of course a relatively open end, but the uncertainty about the future which that reflected was all part of Claremont and Byrne's intentions.) It really has brought me up short to compare the two tales. You'd think there'd been not a change in styles so much as an utter collapse in craftmanship.<br />Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-42226735220534548032013-03-18T21:07:00.195+00:002013-03-18T21:07:00.195+00:00It would be reaching to think Bendis would ever en...It would be reaching to think Bendis would ever entertain #10, even in parody - it contains entirely too much closure. Why finish a story with "the end" when with a little less effort it could be "the end... or is it?"Michael Hoskinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11302540308587868138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-222024906333651232013-03-18T20:22:34.939+00:002013-03-18T20:22:34.939+00:00Hello Osvaldo:- I fear I have already sampled New ...Hello Osvaldo:- I fear I have already sampled New Avengers, and I find myself similarly alienated. Having loved Manhattan Projects, I'm quite baffled by the pomposity of NA. <br /><br />Do let me know when you write about it.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-12006337641461601792013-03-18T20:19:55.630+00:002013-03-18T20:19:55.630+00:00Hello Sally:- I am indeed doing my best to contrib...Hello Sally:- I am indeed doing my best to contribute to the greater good. Thank you for noticing. (But if asked to swear in court, I may be forced to admit that I was actually hoping to enjoy this.)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-88105095213745725962013-03-18T19:58:15.514+00:002013-03-18T19:58:15.514+00:00I am SO very glad that I am not reading this. Tha...I am SO very glad that I am not reading this. Thank you Colin! You suffered, so that others would not have to!SallyPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05592635194271250605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-67859687268338911902013-03-18T19:23:35.573+00:002013-03-18T19:23:35.573+00:00Whatever you do, don't waste your time with Hi...Whatever you do, don't waste your time with Hickman's new run on <i>New Avengers</i> either. <br /><br />Not only does less than nothing happen (seriously, the second issue takes up the story before the first issue to no good narrative reason and even re-uses panels), but what is discussed is basically reinforcing the idea that the things the Marvel Illuminati do these days are indiscernible from the plans of supervillains in the Silver and Bronze age.<br /><br />I plan to write about it, but I am in the middle of big site revamp currently.mr. oyolahttp://themiddlespaces.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-17875807169877109142013-03-18T17:16:41.996+00:002013-03-18T17:16:41.996+00:00Hello Ed:- You're right, the problem with BMB ...Hello Ed:- You're right, the problem with BMB is he evidently had produced an impressive body of work. The first two-thirds of Powers, the first two-thirds of Alias .... In fact, it's all too obvious a matter to even try to summarise. So the problem is, why is he content to produce work which is clearly - to some minds anyway - so second rate? It's not a matter of whether the books sell or not. Of course they do, although I suspect they'd sell a great deal more if they spoke to an audience beyond the hardcore. Nor is a matter of the comics being without quality, which would be an absurd argument, despite the absence of value in AOUB2. But no fiction can possibly be improved by an absence of sense and drama and progression. That's not possible. (And I left the matter of "sense" alone despite some obvious plot-holes that surely ought to have been attended to.)<br /><br />But to the Rump, "Events" are essential reading. And BMB is brilliant in informing his Events with a great big dollop of sentimentality, which avoids the entirely hollow sensation which Fear Itself inspired. (Of course, how Mr Fraction has bounced back from that with FF, Hawkeye and Everything Burns.)"Sentimentality" plus "Event" = sales it seems, and that's especially so when the writer still shows flashes, and sometimes more than flashes, of his true quality. Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-25698982612788243032013-03-18T16:40:22.722+00:002013-03-18T16:40:22.722+00:00Hi Colin,
Crikey... I borrowed a copy of AoU #1, ...Hi Colin,<br /><br />Crikey... I borrowed a copy of AoU #1, decided to give the rest of the 'event' a pass and, on your evidence, I'm glad I did.<br /><br />I can't wait for the Bendis guide to comics writing. Perhaps it will include such pearls of wisdom as "when writing for major superhero characters/properties there's no need to worry about characterisation or voice, the fans with their extensive knowledge will do all the work for you", "it's ok to retcon yourself", "fans love to see their heroes have breakfast together" and "if you're coming to the end of an issue and realise that nothing has happened, instructing the artist to depict a major character looking all frowny and serious is an effective substitute for plot points".<br /><br />Of course I'm joking, there's plenty of BMB comics which I've thoroughly enjoyed. I'll even stick up for the early part of his New Avengers and his Dark Avengers. As you said, it's hard to understand unless he's trying to see just how far down the decompression rabbit hole he can go before it backfires. So far, in terms of sales, it's yet to backfire. It's the fans who are buying in such high numbers which trouble me... do they even want a story from their monthlies? Do they simply buy whatever they're told is 'important' by Marvel's PR? Is it a readers' Stockholm syndrome where the absence of 'things that happen' has become an endearing quality? Ed Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08568510684843061962noreply@blogger.com