tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post8145521245299306590..comments2024-02-22T02:31:34.108+00:00Comments on Too Busy Thinking About My Comics: The Optimism Of Colonel Daniel Dare (Part 2 of 2)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-44014738893671727932012-05-13T19:45:12.431+01:002012-05-13T19:45:12.431+01:00Hello B Smith:- I'm sorry, my old brain isn...Hello B Smith:- I'm sorry, my old brain isn't following your argument. I never had any doubt that the sexism which Hampson was challenging had also been passed down to his readers. All the more reason to admire the man, I think you'll agree. Directly challenging an audience's prejudices - and an audience of boys at that - is a pretty impressive thing to do.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-22196868641423595532012-05-13T04:24:08.532+01:002012-05-13T04:24:08.532+01:00Surely, though, this was just Hampson reading his ...Surely, though, this was just Hampson reading his audience correctly. Eagle's readers would largely have been young boys, whose response might equally have been "Girls! Yuk!"B Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18016629838915185467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-70916943641644034622012-05-09T19:50:26.845+01:002012-05-09T19:50:26.845+01:00Hello Kiwijohn:- I've got a bit into Pinker...Hello Kiwijohn:- I've got a bit into Pinker's book myself, although I fear that it's joined the I-really-WILL-finish-soon-pile. I can think of great many objections to Pinker's thesis, but then, I should be able, or all those years of social science whether as teacher or student have gone to waste. Also, as I say, I've not finished the book, and it's rude to pick a fight before the other chap has had his say. Yet I suspect that he's generally right, in that there's certainly no doubt that society is fantastically less violent for most people most of the time. The problem, of course, is that still leaves a great many folks living in terrible conditions. I'm not sure the West has the will to take on the huge social problems which remain. <br /><br />I've stood up for the writing of Bendis and Johns on this site before and got some considerable stick for it too. But particularly where the past 18 months are concerned, I quite agree with you. Standards have fallen, though I bet returns haven't ...<br /><br />How terrific to hear that you've not only be reading Dan's adventures recently, but that you've been won over! How splendid. Seriously, I have a strange sense that every convert to Dan is a convert to a better world, although my head knows of course that any correlation would work the other way even if it did exist. Folks sympathetic to the values of those stories would need their beliefs first. Still, it's a nice conceit, isn't it? World peace through exposure to Dan Dare comics.<br /><br />I'm with you that power won't affect everyone in the same way. But the fact that the degree of corruption is different doesn't change the fact that, one way or another, power corrupts. Yet with all the proper investment and care being taken over the law and education, for example, there's no reason why a great deal of that can't be, as you say, dealt with. It's just that it'll be an uphill battle between human nature and human culture, and each new generation has to learn that for themselves, meaning that each step forward can often be followed by several steps back. Still, that also means that good times can be on the way too.<br /><br />It's been a long day. I'll just opt for choosing to believe that the better may happen until I've had a good night's sleep. And I wish the same for you too.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-2708897204257727152012-05-09T19:39:52.030+01:002012-05-09T19:39:52.030+01:00Hello Charles:- Yep, there's no doubting where...Hello Charles:- Yep, there's no doubting where Mr Hampson was standing on this one, is there! Poor old Sir Humphrey comes across as right chauvinistic, though of course he quickly decides to practically adopt Ms Peabody, which says a great deal for her capabilities and his capacity to rethink his prejudices. <br /><br />It's a shame that Peabody was rarely again allowed to shine like this. (I can't recall a time, although it has been a good while since I read through all 9 years worth of strips!) It would beasy to attack the character for being very white, very upper middle class, and so on. In the context of the age she was a star. What's shocking is how few characters can match her new, let along stand as unimpeachably more radical good examples.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-37595427340095477482012-05-09T06:18:14.145+01:002012-05-09T06:18:14.145+01:00Hi Colin,
Funnily enough, I was reading this post...Hi Colin, <br />Funnily enough, I was reading this post and the comments above, and they coincide very nicely with the conclusions of the book I've just finished reading: Steven Pinker's "the Better Angels of our Nature - the Decline in Violence" (http://stevenpinker.com/publications/better-angels-our-nature . Pinker demostrates, pretty conclusively I think, that there has been a massive decline in violence in human society, and that has combined with what he calls the "rights revolutions" of human rights in the 1960s, women's rights in the 1970s, gay rights, children's rights, animal rights etc to give rise to a generally much more peaceful and civilised society than ever. In these respects, Hampson's optimism has been rewarded. In regards to superhero comics then,I wonder if the upping of the level of shock and really ugly violence (as opposed to, ironically, the very "comicbook violence" seen in Marvel's current 'Avengers' movie)is partly a response to the fact that since society is more peaceful, then it is the really shocking violent crimes that still get a societal/reader reaction...<br /><br />My above comment not withstanding, I still think that Bendis and Johns' writing mostly stinks...<br /><br />Back to Dan Dare - I never had much interest in reading Dan Dare (although I enjoyed Belardinelli's Dan Dare in the early 2000AD issues) and I thought that the New Eagle Dan Dare in the 80s was rather tedious. Recently though, I read the Titan collection of Rogue Planet and also Garth Ennis' Dan Dare and enjoyed them both immensely. I think that your post hits the nail on the head as regards the appeal of both titles - i.e. the throughly decent character of the hero - who, with only a little imagination, could be "anyone", just like the heroes of the 1940s RAF were also mostly "everymen". Dan Dare suggests to me that good people can achieve power and influence and stay good and effect good. <br />Which brings me to another point :-) the old saw about 'power corrupts'? Well apparently power doesn't so much 'corrupt' one's personality as 'magnify' it: i.e. that greedy people become more greedy, whilst generous people become more generous. <br />I think that as a whole, whilst the world has many problems, the human race is capable of resolving many of them, if the decent people stand up and stop the greedy few and those who would literally like to turn back the clock to some mythical era where everyone knew their place. Human society HAS gotten better in our lifetimes, and I think we all need to acknowledge that.<br /><br />kiwijohnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-21604705261011906942012-05-09T01:33:27.965+01:002012-05-09T01:33:27.965+01:00I love that "WOMEN! PAH!" scene. All she...I love that "WOMEN! PAH!" scene. All she's doing is calmly sitting down, looking very 1950s, list her qualifications and being part of the group - she's drawn with people facing her and interacting, whereas Hubert stands apart, scowling, only able to respond with "BAH!". Even if you didn't get to him responding "WOMEN! PAH!" like she won't get off his lawn and you stuck with that panel, it's clear who's being professional and who we're meant to be on the side of.<br /><br />Someone is clearly shown as not being professional and it ain't Joyce. <br /><br />- Charles RBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-29909195537904550082012-05-08T09:04:09.260+01:002012-05-08T09:04:09.260+01:00Hello Sgaile-beairt:- You're quite right, of c...Hello Sgaile-beairt:- You're quite right, of course: Hampson's work is shockingly good, and the absence of his influence in so much of today's work is ... a great regret. And if you were impressed by above scans from the first five or so weeks of his work on Dan Dare, I can assure you, it just gets better, until Terra Nova part 1 - his last contribution to the strip from 1959 - which is simply breath-taking. It is SO good. Indeed, it's probably the finest space adventure in comics-form I've ever read, and yes, I know how stiff some of the competition is.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-55414968980292877592012-05-08T09:00:32.532+01:002012-05-08T09:00:32.532+01:00Hello Kieron:- Thank you. Hampson's Dan Dare m...Hello Kieron:- Thank you. Hampson's Dan Dare must be in many ways the easiest of sells; just put those scans up and it's impossible - I'd like to believe, wishfully - not to be reminded once again of how beguiling a prospect his work remains.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-59806018748362965272012-05-08T08:54:32.572+01:002012-05-08T08:54:32.572+01:00Hello Carol:- Thank you. I'm grateful to you f...Hello Carol:- Thank you. I'm grateful to you for your percipient point about the possible correlation between experiences of violence on the part of creators and the manner in which it's discussed. Of course, there are - as I know you'd be the very first to argue - a great many creators who've never lifted a rifle for anything more deadly than paint-balling whose work is laudably ethical. But still, there's alot of fan-boy-creators not fit to change Robert Kanighers' typewriter ribbons, if they even know that he existed.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-18846155485530978682012-05-08T02:15:33.387+01:002012-05-08T02:15:33.387+01:00Its always shocking to find the old pulp pop art b...Its always shocking to find the old pulp pop art being more progressive than the modern homages to it. Shocking and sad.<br /><br />--Sgaile-beairtAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-84309971010961595382012-05-07T22:49:17.528+01:002012-05-07T22:49:17.528+01:00The first essay made me actually spend a worrying ...The first essay made me actually spend a worrying amount of money getting the first two DAN DARE collections. Nice work here.Kieronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10571108616860771780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-89457968082425301682012-05-07T22:43:18.801+01:002012-05-07T22:43:18.801+01:00i'm glad i hijacked the thread now, if only fo...i'm glad i hijacked the thread now, if only for your excellent and thoughtful response.carolhttp://www.theculturalgutter.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-62073554206071082292012-05-07T18:53:34.998+01:002012-05-07T18:53:34.998+01:00Hello Carol:- The thread is yours. I can't ima...Hello Carol:- The thread is yours. I can't imagine that you'd abuse the privilage.<br /><br />I think the arguement that the times demand that heroes kill is an idiot child's argument. It shows somebody thinking not of character or politics, but of expediancy and cheap effect. There are some super-folks whose characters, including their politics, would led them to kill. There are others who wouldn't. This isn't, as I'm absolutely sure you'd agree, rocket science. Stories aren't about what creators think their audience want to the degree that all other issues simply go out of the window.<br /><br />The idea that today's world is more dangerous than that of the past is clearly a daft argument, as you say. What do we mean by dangerous? Who are we talking about? Is it the comic book super-verses we're talking about, because if so, the superverses have nothing to do with the "real" world and the excessive jeopardy they present doesn't reflect reality. The argument seems to come down to "We make our worlds so bleak and our characters so twisted that their killing people is logical". <br /><br />Are their situations where killing is a necessary business? Well, that's the story. Not the fact of the death, but the moral principles that're used to discuss theb matter and the consequences that debate's outcome has for all concerned. There may even be heroes who kill sometimes and not at others, who change their minds and so on.The argument that "times are dangerous, our heroes kill" is so impossibly thick that it's actually hard to argue with, because debating with anyone making such a statement is already beyond the event horizon of informed discussion.<br /><br />But oh for a big-name superhero who kills and is sent to jail for years and years and years and learns to regret their actions.<br /><br />I agree entirely with your arguement that many of the creators of the past were far more familiar with violence, war, death etc than our current generation. (The mind goes back to Frank Miller writing how he longed to serve, but couldn't, so he had to write Holy Terror in order to do his bit. I'd be more impressed if there'd been any sign of FM signing up when he did have a choice.) Though the mainstream creators of the years prior to the direct market had little if any chance to show characters taking life, it's notable how relatively sophisticated and thought-provoking many of their tales were. The moral issues discussed, for example, in DC's war books were often far more revealing and smart-minded than today's vigilante-fests. The problem isn't just that some of today's creators seem happy to produce stories with little of morality beyond that of the hang-them-high brigade. It seems to be that many of them have little grasp/interest of the relevant ethical issues at all. Perhaps folks who fought in past and/or lived through times in which civil liberties were even more problematical than today knew more about the matters they were writing of. For every Simone or Cornell today, there's ... well, best not to mention names.<br /><br />One of the reasons I wanted to try to talk about Dare was because the strip DID unpretentiously reflect social and moral issues, and the fact that it was a boy's comic didn't prevent it from being smart and inspiring. So many of today's comics are supposed to be for adults and there's nothing smart or inspiring about them at all. Frank Hampson's work in the first Dare strip is well worth learning from, as are a great many other strips currently defined as "old"/"irrelevant"/"for kids".<br /><br />Or to put it another way, "I agree" and "urgh!"Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-18180028836252247062012-05-07T18:18:29.050+01:002012-05-07T18:18:29.050+01:00hi colin--
i'm about to hijakck your thread b...hi colin--<br /><br />i'm about to hijakck your thread but your conclusion brought to mind something i've been thinking a lot about lately while pondering the direction that superhero comics have taken--especially after a DC editorial discussion (geoff johns, i think) of heroes who kill and heroes who do not. there's a sense that Golden Age superhero comics were naive and products of a more innocent time, that superman and batman can no longer afford the luxury of their respective principles in our modern more dangerous world. <br /><br />but the creators of the 1930s and 1940s were part of hemingway's lost generation. these ideals, this sense that people could be better are an outgrowth of their experiences in a very dangerous world that included: mustard gas, trench warfare, the cynical use of opium in the "great game" of diplomacy, eugenics movements and the implementation of eugenics policy, lynching, the true horrors of world war I, the sino-japanese war and world war II. <br /><br />and many creators of this era were far more likely to have seen people killed and even to have killed someone in war than contemporary creators. so i can't help thinking that maybe we should pay attention to what they created. sure it is a diversion, but it is also a response to their time and i think we could learn something from it.carolhttp://www.theculturalgutter.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-88347312465469721632012-05-07T17:02:47.470+01:002012-05-07T17:02:47.470+01:00Hello Rob:- Then I must post material from his las...Hello Rob:- Then I must post material from his last Dare strip from some 9 years later. Hampson started off brilliant and became a master. I'm glad you've made his acquaintance, I know that he and Dare are in many ways a British phenomenon.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-83821172552733625052012-05-07T16:50:39.531+01:002012-05-07T16:50:39.531+01:00I hadn't seen Hampson's artwork before: wo...I hadn't seen Hampson's artwork before: wonderful stuff, and the coloring is to die for.Rob Barretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17791752557408134270noreply@blogger.com