tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post9084334770454724239..comments2024-02-22T02:31:34.108+00:00Comments on Too Busy Thinking About My Comics: What's The Point Of Simon Baz, Green Lantern & Car Thief? (Part 2)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-59754846173665422062013-01-16T13:21:28.745+00:002013-01-16T13:21:28.745+00:00Hello Emmet:- Thank you for your kind words.
&quo...Hello Emmet:- Thank you for your kind words.<br /><br />"The sf fantasy of space cops with magic rings was brought suddenly down to Earth - speak to some fans, hell read the chapter on O'Neil/Adams in Supergods, and it's clear many still haven't gotten over that shock."<br /><br />The great periods of the super-book have always been those associated with radical changes in storytelling if not politics, although changes in the staid forms of storytelling do always tend to suggest political radicalism anyway. But the GL/GA issues were far better admired and enjoyed in the moment of their release than posterity would have it. True, they didn't sell to the degree that DC was willing to keep them going, although of course now they'd be line-leading numbers. But they were tremendously well-received and won many of the day's awards. Yet as you rightly some, some folks have never got over their social engagement, and the years have tended to tar the books as being far less entertaining and smart than they were. Yep, the drug issues were as awkward as they were taboo-breaking, but then so were Marvel's tilt at the same issue in Spider-Man 96-8. But history has somehow ended up recasting GL/GA as a deadend, whereas few if any of the great writers of the 70s and 80s - from Gerber to Moore - escaped being influenced by them. <br /><br />I would love to think that Johns was thinking in the way you're suggesting. And I'd appreciate being told about it if he says he was. It wouldn't diminish the ineptness of the stories as either melodramas or social comment, but it would pave the road to hell with good intentions. The super-book could desperately do with The Wire's influence bleeding into it, couldn't it? And of course, The Wire allowed Omar to play out the role of the anti-heroic vigilante before showing exactly where that can lead, both in terms of his own survival and of the impact on the broader community too. <br /><br />I'd like to see everyone touching on social issues. Kieron Gillen, for example, has shown that you can be political even when the story doesn't appear to be polemical at all. And sometimes more than "touching upon" too. Johns' efforts are at least important because they raise debates, although he's done so in such a cack-handed way. But I'd love to see far more comics engaged in the real world as well as fantasy. Perhaps one day we'll all get to note that there's only a few comics available that have no political resonance beyond timidity and an inherent reactionary core of values. I'd rather the balance was that way around. <br /><br />I must go read Brian Woods' Star Wars tale. I wonder how he's approached that particular universe .... <br /><br />Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-69502735708424356242013-01-16T13:02:13.067+00:002013-01-16T13:02:13.067+00:00Hello Emmet:- Agreed. I was deeply tempted to talk...Hello Emmet:- Agreed. I was deeply tempted to talk about Detroit as I understand it from sources like Requiem - which I was lucky enough to catch on BBC 2 about 18 months ago, and which I have never forgotten. But then, even last week's Late Show piece on the proposed new bridge linking the city to Canada showed far more of the truth of the city that issue after issue of GL has. <br /><br />I've been humming about buying the new edition of Binelli's Last Days Of Detroit. Just you mentioning the matter may well have pushed me over the edge ... Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-65960470863195099602013-01-16T12:08:29.390+00:002013-01-16T12:08:29.390+00:00Once again Colin, a very interesting read.
The m...Once again Colin, a very interesting read. <br /><br />The mention made of Hard Traveling Heroes both in the piece and in the comments reminds me how the introduction of the cosmic Green Lantern to would-be social realism plots was a surprisingly rich storytelling opportunity. The sf fantasy of space cops with magic rings was brought suddenly down to Earth - speak to some fans, hell read the chapter on O'Neil/Adams in Supergods, and it's clear many still haven't gotten over that shock. <br /><br />Perhaps Simon was intended as a way of conflating the social justice perspective of Olly and the cosmic magic of Hal in one character. Certainly there is an opportunity for that kind of juxtaposition to be returned to. What you focus on though, is Johns' attempt to bring attention to a modern America of racial tensions. The Wire - but for the costumed set. Now that show had Omar, a more vicious and brutal of his own particular code of justice would be hard to find - but people love him! He's compelling, charismatic - his talk of 'The Game' is not an excuse, but a deeply held fatalistic belief. That show portrayed very conflicted perspectives on race in the States - and liberals loved it! Was this what Johns was aiming at I wonder? <br /><br />There's potential in the idea, but I would prefer a Palmiotti/Gray to tackle it, or a Brian Wood. Writers more willing to take a chance. Imagine the possibilities. emmetocuanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14446997439436492721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-50363163527184894252013-01-16T11:47:18.637+00:002013-01-16T11:47:18.637+00:00Julien Temple's Requiem For Detroit should hav...Julien Temple's Requiem For Detroit should have been mandatory viewing for the creators. emmetocuanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14446997439436492721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-86755094057231430622013-01-13T22:41:42.408+00:002013-01-13T22:41:42.408+00:00Hello Simon:- I'm with you completely. As you ...Hello Simon:- I'm with you completely. As you say so ably, the idea of the reformed criminal in and out of the superhero genre is so obviously a productive one that it takes some ineptness to screw the idea up. Eel O'Brien is my absolute favourite in the super-book, and the tradition stretches right down to the present day. <br /><br />"And I know that such a character CAN work, so I can't blame the recipe for the failure of Simon Baz. I blame the cook."<br /><br />There's no reason why Simon Baz couldn't have been presented as as criminal and still be put to use as part of a socially responsible representation of a community. But as the headline representation, and in this way?<br /><br />You're right, it's the cook's responsibility.<br /><br />On other matters: glad to hear from someone else who not only appreciates the Bat-Man/Cap team-up, but that great moment with the Joker. I've never been fond of John Byrne's scripting, or indeed his art without the likes of Giordano or Austin contributing to it. But that was a fine piece of work, and one of the very best Marvel/DC collaborations, if not THE best.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-10763997196263560592013-01-13T22:33:31.917+00:002013-01-13T22:33:31.917+00:00This sounds like the thoroughly depressing busines...This sounds like the thoroughly depressing business portended by those first teaser images of the masked, gun-wielding Green Lantern. But the reformed petty criminal standing up against "the real bad guys" is a pretty standard character motif for the super set, and I'm not sure that criminality alone erodes those characters' storytelling potential: Plastic Man started as safecracker Eel O'Brien; The Prowler started as a crook before Spider-Man convinced him to go straight; the first Avengers reboot ("Cap's kooky quartet!") was built on the reform premise, and Busiek turned that inside-out to create The Thunderbolts. <br /><br />Other storytellers have focused on the particular "to catch a thief" tension between criminals and foreign enemies. "The Dirty Dozen" provides but one example. In "The Rocketeer," the hero turns the tide by pitting an avaricious american gangster against a Nazi spy. A Batman-Captain America crossover memorably featured the Joker betraying the Red Skull with the defense "I may be a murderous psychopath, but I'm an AMERICAN murderous psychopath!" Making Baz a car thief who foils terrorists seems to follow in this longer tradition.<br /><br />All that said, the existence of these tropes cannot vindicate bad usage of them. But that seems like a separate matter. A better writer might even have been able to make a sympathetic car thief, or a unsympathetic jerk who earns our respect and interest. But achieving that requires both commitment and attention to the kinds of vivid and specific detail that make a character work. And I know that such a character CAN work, so I can't blame the recipe for the failure of Simon Baz. I blame the cook. Simon (formerly Johnny Sorrow)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08429628635241033885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-36027743914921241082013-01-12T10:22:39.758+00:002013-01-12T10:22:39.758+00:00Hello Simon:- The history of superhero comics is i...Hello Simon:- The history of superhero comics is indeed full of exams of characters with dodgy origins and histories who've been approached in new, redeeming ways by smart-minded, socially aware creators. As you suggest, there's certainly no reason why Simon Baz can't be reinterpreted so as to scrape the stupidity and insensitivity away from the character.<br /><br />The shock, of course - and I don't think shock is over-doing it - is that anyone would produce a character that NEEDS such a reworking within a few months of their introduction in 2012. If Simon Baz had been introduced with a version of the same tale in the early 1970s, then it might be far easier to grasp why it had happened. But to churn out this junk in 2012 is as mysterious as it's disheartening. The need to fundamentally rework a character so as remove cultural insensitivity in the modern era is a sign that somebody - or rather a chain of people - has either been very careless, very arrogant or very stupid. Or some combination of all three factors.<br /><br />I'm still uncomfortable with the fact that Miles Morales' family had to have that strong connection to crime as a headline issue from the off. But I can in that case readily accept that it was at the very least dealt with in a way that reflected thought and care. It might not be my definition of thought and care, but it's several leagues above where GJ has placed himself. <br /><br />I'll have to give some thought to exactly why BMB's USM reads so much better than GJ's GL on this issue. Certainly BMB does have obvious influences from beyond comics and TV and he has often put them to good use. Yet you could hardly say that he's a careful plotter; his scripts are saturated with sickly over-obvious moments and plot-holes. To me, it's less a mark of BMB's qualities and more a mark of GJ's work having become so very poor in the past few years. I struggle to find a BMB book that doesn't bore the pants off me these days. But GJ's books tend to inhabit another order of awful. With BMB's work - and this is a solely personal opinion I know - I tend to see a gifted and smart man who doesn't seem to often want to rework his drafts until they're sharp, disciplined and coherent. With GJ's recent work on material like Flash, GL, JL and so on, the work seems to be from somebody who's complacent and idle. I'm not saying that's true for either man. I'm saying that's how it reads.<br /><br />In the end, the truth is that I like Mike Morales and I believe in him, even if I don't believe aspects of the stories which BMB places him into. But I look at Simon Baz and I can't even see a character so much as a huge cluster*&£! of a corporate conceit. Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-59817076348497880992013-01-12T07:27:25.267+00:002013-01-12T07:27:25.267+00:00Hello Colin,
It’s been rough for Simons in comic...Hello Colin, <br /><br />It’s been rough for Simons in comics lately. Wonder Man’s gone from slightly hapless to a lunatic and now this. What’s left for me, Sapphire Stagg’s miserly, murderous father? <br /><br />Anyway! Baz came up when I was talking to a friend yesterday and both of us agreed that he’d hopefully go on to become part of the wider media mythos and do better there, given there aren’t ALWAYS quite the same production problems that have become almost inherent in comics at this point. <br /><br />Like maybe we’d a Simon Baz who’s implied to have been on the wrong side of the tracks. Or a Simon Baz who loves his family to the point he might do something stupid for them to protect them. Or a Simon Baz who speaks like a robot because he’s permanently keeping his guard up, as opposed to speaking like a robot because he’s being written by Geoff Johns. <br /><br />To add to what Brigonos masterfully honed in on about pre-existing stories to work off of, maybe Johns is also out of his element because he’s try to write a kind of crime book. A lot of Brian Michael Bendis’s Avengers writing tries to include (or at least give the appearance of including) a whodunit. Even his use of flashbacks are meant to act as clues: here’s something we didn’t know about before! Johns’ made use of flashbacks too but they’ve tended to be the origin summary kind, haven’t they? Or a slight spin on certain events that makes it easier to make it look like where he’s taking a character is a natural progression. <br /><br />Not that that’s at all wrong, but it’s a technique that let’s someone fall back on a personality or tone having been there before to change (or bring back) than create a whole new one. But Simon Baz doesn’t have that pre-prepared world and area of expertise so it’s probably easier to just bowl along with a vague collection of ideas. Muslims. Post 9/11 paranoia. Bombs. Okay. Along with being NEW! and EXCITING! and above all RELEVANT! what does that sound like? Uh…crime book? Those have mysteries and explosions. Good thing there so many examples of how to do crime books with super heroes in the post 9/11 world! <br /><br />By contrast there’s that moment in new Ultimate Spidey where Miles Morales’ dad sits down with him and about his past misdeeds with Uncle Prowler. While that’s a pretty good Great Power and Responsibility speech moment twist for the Spidey mythos in general, it also felt to me like a good examination of people who commit crime, why Mile’s father approaches things the way he does, why he loves his family and keeps his brother at arm’s length, why he doesn’t like mutants and super people and why he’s a bit of a glum bugger while also just naturally being a glum bugger. Simon Baz has checklist moments with his supporting cast but they’re nowhere near as informative or could be applied to his wider mythos like that one could. <br /><br />So yeah. I don’t know if that moment worked for you like it did me Collin, or if it works because Bendis has more experience and interest for neo noir than Johns does, but if there’s really nothing new under the sun in comics it feels like that one moment for Miles and Dad Morales (I forgot Dad’s name but would like to think Dad Morales sounds cool enough in it’s own right) feels like the sort of checklist people should try to be ticking off instead of whatever notepad Simon Baz came from. <br /><br />And while the world around Miles interests me a great deal the kid himself doesn’t all that much (Perhaps it should be that he doesn’t YET) so maybe a good thing for the Miles and Simon’s of comics and fiction in general is being allowed to permeate in the worlds of media outside their source material. Simon being a member of a cartoon cast, where even just a simple running gag can go a long way fleshing out a character, like, say, “Hey wanna know what this tattoo on my arm means?”. I’d totally watch a cartoon about a Green Lantern who loved tattoos just so darn much. <br /><br />-Simon<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-67026199303142439492013-01-08T19:02:50.206+00:002013-01-08T19:02:50.206+00:00Hello Carol:- To be honest, I never had any doubt ...Hello Carol:- To be honest, I never had any doubt at all that the portrayal of Dearborn would turn out to be inadequate, and that's being polite about it. It is, however, good to have the opinion not only of someone who knows, but someone I can trust when they express that knowledge.<br /><br />I was trying to bend over backwards not to start carpet-chewing about this terrible, offensive comic, but it was very hard not to. As you say, Johns has just reinforced stereotypes in these issues. <br /><br />No matter how hard I try to work out how it's possible for such a talented bloke to write such rubbish, I can't come to a solution that convinces. But regardless of the explanation, the comic is an ignorant, ignorant product, and on the level of storytelling every bit as much as stereotyping. <br /><br />Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-47706961135797480182013-01-08T18:04:00.594+00:002013-01-08T18:04:00.594+00:00Hi, again, Colin--
Living about 20 minutes from D...Hi, again, Colin--<br /><br />Living about 20 minutes from Dearborn, where one of my favorite comic book shops is located, I was surprised to see how much the people of Dearborn feared Muslims. Here I thought they were afraid of someone who would drive all the way across the country to blow up a mosque with fireworks (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/30/us-mosque-attack-idUSTRE70T3PI20110130) or a man who drove across the country to protest outside the Islamic Center of America with a gun on Easter (http://www.freep.com/article/20110421/NEWS02/110421070/700-surround-Islamic-Center-protest-Terry-Jones-rally-plans).<br /><br />As you say, there are plenty of stories to tell, but this one is not very reality-referenced and in seeming to sympathize with the plight of Muslim Arab-Americans, just recreates this fantasy, while ostensibly teaching tolerance, of Dearborn that is very dangerous for the people who live there--and who shop for comics and eat at Coney Islands and falafel places wearing hijab or not.<br /><br />Dearborn has a lot of potential for very interesting and very complex super-people stories, it's too bad this one wasn't.carolhttp://www.theculturalgutter.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-35325396829980096392013-01-07T08:46:35.451+00:002013-01-07T08:46:35.451+00:00Hello Andrew:- You mentioning Robocop just made me...Hello Andrew:- You mentioning Robocop just made me realise that it's actually all the more relevant in the light of today's politics too. I must find some time to watch it again pronto.<br /><br />I appreciate you mentioning the lack of geographical as well as cultural specificity. I despair of the super-book's lack of interest in the real world. Where there's a recognisable version of reality, all the costumed absurdity becomes all the more remarkable because we can compare what we know - or at least can believe - with their remarkable antics. But place generic super-people in generic landscapes and the whole thing blurs in a colossal sense of over-familiarity. It was one thing for the great Silver Age artists who had little access to research and a great deal of work to do to pay the bills to create their own reality. A Ditko, Infantino or Kirby cityscape was fascinating in its own unique character, and the stories being told rarely needed reality referenced. <br /><br />But, as you say, a tale set in specific areas and concerned with specific cultures? It would have been preferable if more work had been done by those concerned.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-55048809420971908172013-01-07T00:37:55.399+00:002013-01-07T00:37:55.399+00:00"As far as I am aware Johns hails from a very..."As far as I am aware Johns hails from a very affluent Detroit suburb where the inhabitants' view of the rest of the city has born an enduring belief that Robocop is a documentary, so I'm not sure how drawing on his background would have made for a better Simon Baz."<br /><br />While this is true, it does (or should) give Johns some level of insight into Detroit and its neighboring communities, which could help flesh out Baz himself. Where Baz comes from should inform him in some way as much as his ethnicity and religion, much as how Peter Parker coming from Forest Hills matters.<br /><br />Going off on that tangent, it's been remarkably frustrating all around how Johns was not only unspecific in his representation of Muslims, but even of the Metro Detroit area. A great deal of that lies with Doug Mahnke depicting it in only the most generic visual shorthand, but even from the writing (he doesn't have a lot of "establishing shots," I've noticed), I wouldn't gather Johns has ever been to these places, let alone grew up in the area!<br /><br />The best he's come up with are references to the auto industry (even then only in vague terms) and the Secretary of State's Office.<br /><br />I guess the only point there is just to add another layer to how much Johns, Mahnke, and DC have failed with this character. And while I'm adding my voice to a chorus: Robocop is a great movie.<br />Andrew Taylorhttp://leftinflyovercountry.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-2865204635877986582013-01-01T23:10:02.737+00:002013-01-01T23:10:02.737+00:00Hello Brigonos:- The assumption that a person'...Hello Brigonos:- The assumption that a person's background will grant them any particular insight, or indeed the ability to express it, is a dubious one, isn't it, given how many folks attempt to write about what they know and end up producing barely lukewarm work. In Johns' case here, I suspect that part of his problem is that he seems to have no idea of how representations have been traditionally put to work. (If he has, then he's chosen to ignore that knowledge, which would be hubris rather than ignorance.) As such, he's using the tools developed for superhero tales in an environment where such needs to supplemented with other tools.<br /><br />I suspect that you're fibbing about that Robocop business, although you're quite right about how thoroughly splendid the movie is.<br /><br />But as for your Viking heritage granting you no insight, how can you explain your empathy with polar bears? I mean, Vikings obviously spent a great deal of time with polar bears, didn't they? That's how representations work, isn't it? Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-17167093320826753742013-01-01T19:52:15.199+00:002013-01-01T19:52:15.199+00:00Having sat through more than one lecture about how...Having sat through more than one lecture about how Colin Farrel is not a working class tearaway and is in fact a posh gobshite, I suppose it's my turn to be a jerk about someone using perceptions of their "class" or race to get ahead or to make a cheap point, as Johns may technically be of Lebanese heritage, but I'm part Viking and can tell you with certainty that my background knowledge in the worlds of sailing, rape and being ginger is nonexistent.<br />As far as I am aware Johns hails from a very affluent Detroit suburb where the inhabitants' view of the rest of the city has born an enduring belief that Robocop is a documentary, so I'm not sure how drawing on his background would have made for a better Simon Baz.<br /><br />Although JT Edison's career did just fine despite his background, so I am not sure what my point is, really, apart from that Robocop is always worth mentioning.Brigonoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05284882511370405132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-7710690862758708392012-12-31T13:09:56.971+00:002012-12-31T13:09:56.971+00:00Hello Brigonos:- I want a t-shirt with PASSION IS ...Hello Brigonos:- I want a t-shirt with PASSION IS MY WHEELHOUSE. Though I'll want to loose about 10 years worth of weight before I dare to weat it ...<br /><br />The problem with Johns is that he HASN'T keep away from those things. He's neither stayed away from the issues you mentioned or treated them with delicacy, knowledge and insight. As you say, he doesn't have a track record of dealing with real-world issues in the super-book, or at least he hasn't beyond the focus on grief, loss and family which informed much of his best work. <br /><br />I find everything that you've written in your second paragraph to be entirely convincing. The idea that Baz is such a difficult prospect for Johns to bring to life because he offers nothing of continuity to play with is a compelling one. Can it really be that Johns knows everything about continuity and so little about real life and the traditions of how it's represented in fiction? That seems hard to accept. At the very least, his own background is relevant here. How is it that he can't even draw on that here, when he has done so in others contexts before. <br /><br />It would have been wonderful to see what Garth Ennis did with this raw material. The form that might have taken would've depended, of course, on who he was choosing to use the material to discuss. But one way or another, I would've bought his take without a moment's hesitation. <br /><br />Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-15925865301206902582012-12-31T12:48:07.183+00:002012-12-31T12:48:07.183+00:00Hello Sally - I hope you won't feel the need t...Hello Sally - I hope you won't feel the need to do so. I didn't register the typos myself, and I'd much rather your always-welcomed visits were undertaken in a friendly, relaxed fashion.<br /><br />Of course, that worries me that it'll sound like I'm taking it for granted that you might ever decide to pop in again. That wasn't my intention. But if you, there are no such thing as typos here. I find so many in my own posts that I daren't ever notice them elsewhere ...Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-2676112968878637152012-12-31T01:25:52.278+00:002012-12-31T01:25:52.278+00:00Johns might be onto something in keeping his dista...Johns might be onto something in keeping his distance from portraying how a Muslim-American community works, or how an office job works, or how healthcare works, or how a society works once its participants have graduated from high school, as to rail against the true injustices of organised religion requires passion as much as insight, and Johns' work to date has not featured much in the way of either. For all his faults as a storyteller of late, there's still moments in the odd Judd Winnick story where you can just tell he's pissed at something, but I've never got that from Johns - passion is not his wheelhouse.<br /><br />Johns' forte has always been in the field of continuity-wank, a term I do use in a derogatory way as much as a descriptive one: Stars and Stripe, Superman, Legion of Five Worlds, Infinite Crisis - all stories based on other stories or those stories' characters, but with Simon Baz there's just so much blank cloth that can't be filled with platitudes and the "I guess being bad is not okay" outlook of the uncommitted liberal whose day job is to offend as few people as possible and the way you avoid offending people is you don't ask them to think about the things they hold to be true. Johns' greatest failing with Baz is not that as a whole the enterprise is unchallenging, it is that Johns was attracted to the idea of being the guy who did the "Arab American Superhero Book" without considering if he was really the guy to tell a story about a character with no existing fanbase or pool of existing stories to be strip-mined for ideas - again, another staple of Johns' work.<br /><br />I guess what I am saying is that Garth Ennis would have written the shit out of this story. It would have been something, am I right?Brigonoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05284882511370405132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-11269439491080290382012-12-30T18:42:25.525+00:002012-12-30T18:42:25.525+00:00Good Grief! I really should read my replies befor...Good Grief! I really should read my replies before posting, as I made SO many typos! I humbly apologize for my incoherence and spelling errors. SallyPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05592635194271250605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-34341858828917282702012-12-30T09:30:39.640+00:002012-12-30T09:30:39.640+00:00Hello Joe:- You would hope that that wouldn't ...Hello Joe:- You would hope that that wouldn't be so, wouldn't you, but you may very well be right. I live in fear of the next issue ending with a respectful cast of torturers, superheroes and Green Lanterns all gathering around the Baz's Mosque while the Arab-American community applauds the new Green Lantern for being ... what? ... A SUPERHERO! Or some such scene. The blood chills ....<br /><br />What's the point of writing something if it's not awesome? It's an interesting idea, regardless of who it actually comes from. At what point did "awesome" and "rational, well-considered, smart-minded, emotionally intelligent" part company? I retain my faith that all the scenes of exploding planets and armies of the dead can co-exist with clever, empathetic tales. Yet somehow the culture has moved closer to the point at which "awesome" - and the qualities it suggests - means excessive spectacle regardless of any of those other more human qualities.<br /><br />And underneath all this rubbish about Simon Baz is the undeniable fact that the Arab-American Muslim communities could be the source of such fascinating tales. It would take study, heart and daring, for there's problems and challenges present in any community as well as more positive qualities. But as Paul Cornell showed in the last Captain Britain series, it's more than possible to produce thoroughly enjoyable super-books that do more than just throw up ill-considered stereotypes.<br /><br />But would that be awesome?Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-51700602859794512892012-12-30T09:19:35.986+00:002012-12-30T09:19:35.986+00:00Hello Sergeant Hartman:- You make a fine point. I ...Hello Sergeant Hartman:- You make a fine point. I wonder whether Karen Berger would've wanted that job at the top of the DC corporate ladder, but she would have undoubtedly done a fine job. And given that I can't recall as single problematical representation in a Vertigo book ... by the nature of fiction, there must have been such a thing, but I can't remember anything of the sort. Equally important, she published books by right wingers such as Bill Willingham, centre-leftists such as Paul Cornell and radicals such as Rick Veitch and enabled each to express their own personal political visions. That ability would have been so useful in the New 52 which - with some notable exceptions - has so often failed to live up to its responsibilities as regards the representations in its books. Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-46705751674838405152012-12-30T04:36:20.120+00:002012-12-30T04:36:20.120+00:00I have a strong feeling that America and the Musli...I have a strong feeling that America and the Muslim community of Johns' GL series is going to remain in the negative light until Baz does something so amazingly superheroic that no one will have a choice but to change their ways.<br /><br />"Gee, all we needed to become a little less apathetic and more pro-active was to see was that fellow Muslims can explode aliens with lasers too!" the Muslim community will say.<br /><br />"Wow! Muslim superheros can explode aliens with lasers as well as other American superheros! Even the white ones!" the American people will say.<br /><br />And then everyone will be inspired to be better people because of exploding aliens. To really drive the point home, they'll probably be racist aliens and will probably make a speech about how humans don't deserve to be treated well, and then Baz will say something about how everyone deserves to be treated the same no matter what, before blowing the aliens with lasers in a extra violent splash page.<br /><br />I'd be willing to bet money on it that that's exactly how it'll play out. It reminds me of a forum conversation I was in and someone that claimed to have been an intern at DC claimed that Johns once told him "what's the point in writing something, if it's not awesome?" There were also some amusing anecdotes that would be very telling if real, but whether he was telling the truth or not, that quote /does/ seem to be Johns' M.O.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04857537495427793076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-89769478588837012572012-12-30T03:58:20.768+00:002012-12-30T03:58:20.768+00:00Just wanted to chime in and say that all of this j...Just wanted to chime in and say that all of this just makes me appreciate Karen Berger a lot more (not that I didn't have a great appreciation for her to begin with). Many people feel that when DC became "DC Entertainment" she should have been named Publisher instead of Dan Didio and Jim Lee.<br /><br />Mrs. Berger is one of the greatest visionaries to ever work in the comic book industry and is responsible for shepherding some of the most beautifully crafted literary works to ever be published. <br /><br />If she had gotten that position, would we be seeing such hilariously vapid characters like Baz take center stage? Or better yet, would the New 52 as a whole be such a giant clusterf*ck? Sergeant Hartmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-32968621391512843592012-12-29T22:26:35.218+00:002012-12-29T22:26:35.218+00:00Hello Rabbi Joe:- It would be fascinating to be ab...Hello Rabbi Joe:- It would be fascinating to be able to gain the knowledge of what DC intended by Simon Baz from - as it were - the horse's mouth, free from back-covering and hype. I do retain my belief that nothing but good was intended by Baz, for example, and yet it is hard to grasp what DC's vision of "good" might be. Presumably we can uncover that by looking at the material which ended up being printed. Your suspicions sound like ... how can I put this? ... interesting hypothesis to me. And yet, it's hard to grasp why so little effort is placed into representing anything but White blokes and cliched takes on everyone else.<br /><br />Of course, that's not to say that there haven't been interesting and worthwhile experiments with representation in the past few years. I liked the Gail Simone take on Ryan Choi, for example, and I wish the character were still here. Similarly, I'm fond of the most recent take on the Blue Beetle, or at least I was until the disastrous arm-loping tales I came across in the New 52. Batwoman, the Demon Knights; there has been good and caring work out there. But beyond these worthwhile experiments is the broader world of the DCU. And there, you're right, there's a sense that pieces are being moved around the chess board without the appropriate conviction and enthusiasm being shown for the company's products where social, ethical issues as a whole are concerned.<br /><br />"But then again, these "T" comics aren't written for "teens," are they?" <br /><br />I get your point. They're being produced for a narrow rather than a broad range of teenage readers. One of the things that worries me is that I suspect that a great deal of the New 52 really is being written for a particular niche of male teenage readers. We know that's who the New 52 initiative primarily targeted. It disturbs me that so little attention was paid to diversity in that campaign beyond mostly - but not entirely - shallow gestures. What does that say about producers and consumers alike? Thankfully, there remain a range of editors and creators who are concerned to reflect something other than the world according to white blokes who are gifted enough to do so well. <br /><br />But there's just not enough of them, there's not.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-56325389599656704252012-12-29T22:05:20.713+00:002012-12-29T22:05:20.713+00:00Hello David; “While I think you've clearly and...Hello David; “While I think you've clearly and thoroughly shown the weaknesses in Johns' introduction and characterization of Simon Baz, I'm going to have to disagree with you on the ways to improve his depiction...or that of any minority group.Focusing on admirable, heroic members of a minority group does no good and can actually be counterproductive.”<br /><br />We’re not disagreeing, David. In both the above and its preceding post, I’ve argued that the problem lies in (1) having such a narrow range of representations in play which are also often (2) clearly negative stereotypes too. At no point have I argued that the best way to represent minorities is to present idealised representations. I have said that if Johns is only going to have one central representation of Arab-American Muslim life in his stories, then it really ought not to be one that’s formed largely from negative stereotypes. Better a doctor or a community worker than a car thief dressed in a way that evokes media images of Islamic terrorists. But better a range of fully-formed individuals than either. <br /><br />As for the idea that Baz is somehow allowing Johns to challenge prejudice by being a car-thief and road racer while dressed as a figure who evokes images of terrorists ... No, I'm afraid again that we're going to have to respectfully disagree with each other there. In fact, I’m baffled as to why terrorism has to be the central issue when introducing representations of Arab-Americans at all. That again is simply playing to the stereotype. That it’s an issue that deserves looking at as one of many concerns is beyond doubt. But to make it THE issue for THE initial adventure of Simon Baz – and to do so in such a crass, shallow way – is, to my mind, a terrible miscalculation. Surely the way to represent a community of Americans is not to open up by focusing on such stereotypes with so little attention being paid to wider, everyday issues? To define Arab-Americans with little attention to anything but ill-defined discussions of torture and prejudice is ... a terrible, terrible misjudgment. <br /> <br />The solution to the problems of Johns scripts would be complex and demanding for any writer faced with making something worthwhile of so much that’s weak and even offensive. I certainly would never have suggested insulting the audience with simple noble types as a way of dealing with the weaknesses of Simon Baz as a character and a representation. In fact, in the above, I complained about the lack of diversity, depth and range in the characters on show. From that, I was hoping that my preference for subtle rather than over-simplified strategies would be plain.<br />Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246781681702128600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618879740460069575.post-5467146233483475562012-12-29T20:08:42.435+00:002012-12-29T20:08:42.435+00:00It is striking that the Green Lantern Corps has be...It is striking that the Green Lantern Corps has become the sole supplier of diversity in the DCU. John Stewart's 1971 debut was not mere tokenism, as Stewart himself was a three-dimensional character and O'Neil & Adams tapped into contemporary racial politics. Over three decades later (and almost simultaneously in spring 2012), DC produces its first major Muslim and gay characters--but don't worry, they're a distant 5th and 6th in seniority. They won't be making movies about THESE Green Lanterns. It seems to be of a piece with sticking Cyborg in the Justice League or having an Asian Atom or Hispanic Blue Beetle. Even if those characters are well-written, the calculus of "Is this character minor enough to be made nonwhite (or non-straight or non-Christian)?" is shameful. It's also shockingly out of step with today's youth, who have moved past many of these issues. But then again, these "T" comics aren't written for "teens," are they? They conform to the prejudices of those who came of age, at least biologically, in the extreme 90's. Rabbi Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09554160347602854860noreply@blogger.com